This is why "pastors" are obsessed with the fake "Doctor" title

There's one major difference in reasons why people buy fake luxury goods vs. reasons why they buy fake degrees. You can't generally use fake watches\clothes\handbags etc. to get work and above all - money - at least not to the extent fake degrees help. That, I think, is the major motivation behind fake degrees. To impress others - yes. But it boils down to money, above all else.

 

It seems to me to be less organized Christian denominations where this typically happens. You don't see a lot of fake degrees among Roman Catholics or in the "mainline" Protestant denominations, since those denominations have explicit educational standards for ordination. What's more, simply being ordained by one of these denominations is usually what bears the weight: among Catholics what matters most is the fact somebody is a priest, not what degrees he has (unless he's a scholar of some sort, a university professor or something).

But among Pentecostals, storefront Baptists, and the many non-denominational preachers out there, it often isn't clear who ordained them or what it means. So they go searching for something else that will make them seem more credible and authoritative in the eyes of their parishoners.

 

You may be onto something. There are a lot of advanced degrees among Anglican/Episcopalian and Catholic clergy, but they are predominantly real - so the obsession seems to be with education and sound theology, not titles. As I said, "Father" is a higher title anyway.

On the margins, and as a perhaps unfair anecdote, we encountered two title hounds among Orthodox priesthood while discussing their schools (Fr. Laurent Clenewerck and Fr. Archimandrite Andrew Vujisić). Both are legit scholars, at least. Fr. Andrew is the one with the longest title, but all three of his doctorates are RA or RA-equivalent - so all of his titles check out, except perhaps his shiny new Earlhood from a Georgian pretender. Fr. Laurent's doctorate comes from Fr. Andrew's school and has a plausible claim at GAAP status through a Guatemalan university. Also, I'm pretty sure he did a substantial dissertation for it: it's harder for the man NOT to produce academic prose.

Solid burn. I kind of feel that even there, "pastor" should be the only title one really needs. But oh well.

 

You're welcome, Ted. I only have 5,000+ posts because I was denied "transfer credit" for about 2,600 posts on other degree-forums. Somebody claimed they weren't RA, so ... my non-DI posts got the highway.

"I.C.C. is a -checkin' on down the line.
I'm a little overweight and my log-book's 'way behind..."

(Apologies to Dave Dudley)

 

I disagree they are fake, these are degree legally granted by a religious exempt school so they are not fake.

Most pastor positions do not pay and are mainly for service, it does not make sense to pay 50K for an accredited PhD just to say that you have an accredited PhD as at the end you will still get zero dollars for your service. The non accredited route makes perfect sense to me when you are just serving humanity.
Not all people with this PhDs use them, I earned few doctorates from different churches and don't use them in my resume but they came with the training. I am sure that a lot of people in this forum would throw stones at me for this but I did it just to be able to serve in churches. Some use them because it allows them to sell services that help them to make some cash as pastoral counselors, it is not illegal in Canada or the US to use a religious based PhD in a business card so a Pastoral counselor it is legally entitled to use it to attract customers. Most pastoral counselors make less than 20K a year for this service so it is really survival money for those that choose ministerial careers.
It is very easy for people in this forum to throw stones to pastors but I would like to see people in this forum trying to make a living as a minister, I am sure than more than half would end using the PhD title if this means bringing some food to the table. It is not illegal and they are not meant to work in industry positions so who cares if someone uses them to make a little extra cash as a spiritual counselor.

 

OML! This is somewhere between "deluded" and "Dilaudid!" https://www.uniprix.com/en/drug-lexicon/768/dilaudid

If you need a so-called "doctorate" to make bare-survival money as a minister (or counsellor, or on the fringes of health care, as RFValve has previously suggested) then abandon your "fantasy career" and GET A JOB! Preferably, before your ego-driven, unqualified ineptness does someone irreparable harm. "But it's l-e-e-e-e-gal!" -- now where have I heard that argument before? Such a "doctorate" may not be an offence in Spider Breath, Oregon, or wherever it was issued - depending, of course, on what use you make of it. Might be hugely different where you live!

I'll pray for you, my friend:

"O Saint Levicoff, please descend from thy Rig on High and grant this wazoo a taste of thy Heavenly Flamethrower!"

 

Was it Weinstein to first cast Stone?

 

Probably not, but in the heat of the moment, it felt almost like Einstein...

 

According to academic research out of Canada a couple years ago, the incidence for extreme, malevolent narcissism (NPD) among those in the clergy is about 500% that of the general population. In the study, some 90% of pastors surveyed had at least some narcissistic tendencies. For younger pastors, it's more like a 1500% greater NPD rate than the general population, meaning that if your pastor is under 40, you are almost as likely to have a pastor who has NPD as not. NPD essentially means the person is so consumed by self-love and self-aggrandizement that they care nothing about another, are in fact incapable of empathy, and are, to put it crisply, conscienceless. Scary thought.

This study was conducted, as stated, in Canada (not exactly a hotbed of narcissism, at least per cultural stereotypes) and the study was conducted among relatively liberal/centrist Presbyterians, not big-haired U.S. televangelists, screaming Pentecostals, authoritarian neocalvinists or heads of megachurch empires, where one would expect narcissism to be prevalent among the clergy. One can only imagine what the incidence is in those environments if it's almost catastrophically high in a squishy, middle-of-the-road, mainline denomination in Canada.

So that's likely why fake degrees are so common among the clergy, it's because so many in the clergy are themselves fake, arrogant, self-loving, selfish, unethical, and willing to use any means to get you to fall in line, whether it involves twisting the Bible to make themselves ultimate authorities or buying fake academic credentials to accomplish the same purpose.

It's why I've checked out on church in this culture and now have church at home with close friends. To save my faith, I had to run away from that which people call "church".

 

I wonder sometimes what the NPD rate is in degree-forums. And, of course, where in that spectrum I am.

 

Probably through the roof. The incidence among the general population's about 3% or so, I think. Guessing maybe 95% on degree forums? Maybe a subject for a poll?

 

I see myself as being in the 5%. Damn but I'm looking good!

 

Sure, why not, if it makes you feel good ? ... I prefer to see myself at or above the 99th percentile on the NPD scale. Wicked! Awesome! Just me and my flamethrower!

 

I like this conversation tell me more. I'm thinking about obtaining a Superior education than those who attend accredited Ivy League college's

 

Sorry, but this is scary. Among qualified, licensed counselors, this is called justification and can be anti-social. I would think that justifying counseling without appropriate training and education would qualify as anti-social behavior. You're playing around with someone's social, emotional, and mental well-being.

Most licensed counselors make over $40k. If you're interested in being a pastor, it's okay to have another part-time job.

It's difficult for clients/customers to tell when a professional is qualified to do his or her job, so they rely on degrees, licenses, and certifications. If you're lying about having a PhD, you're betraying the trust clients had in you to believe that your credentials are real.

 

I agree with you @RFValve in your assessment. Many assume that having an unaccredited degree that is meant for service to be a non factor. Most of these Scholar's with Phds have head knowledge (not all) or never did ministry in urban settings (not all of them). Having a religious exempt degree does not disqualify a person because his degee is solely religious. I been to both accredited and a non accredited school's. I received a more biblical based education in a non accredited seminary than I did when I attended the accredited one. I give respect to unaccredited as well as accredited ones. However there are unaccredited seminaries that are total rip offs and only exist to steal their money. I do not like degree and diploma mills. What I think accreditation agencies should do is have unaccredited school's become "certified" institution's or offer affiliate status like ABHE with yearly screening and survey and inspections to opt out for accreditation.

 

Really? Which ones?

 

You can't get an education at a diploma mill. That is what this thread is about; it's not about your obsession with unaccredited schools that qualify for religious exemption (which just happensto be an abused law). The article is about pastors getting degrees from diploma mills just to have a doctor title. If you turned in a resume and $100 for a diploma, then you're a fake doctor and an unethical person who is looking to deceive people. I don't even know how someone could justify deception and call himself a Christian. It's no one's God-given right to be a pastoral counselor. If you can't make it work financially, then it's time to move on to something else. Let people who put in the effort to become qualified serve clients.

 

Do you remember when Jack and Rexella Van Impe purchased doctoral degrees from Pacific Western University for $500 each? From that point onwards, they were called Drs. Jack and Rexella Van Impe. It's perplexing.