DL problems in Pakistan

programs get closed

https://www.pakistantoday.com.pk/2018/03/16/hec-bans-m-phil-phd-enrollments-in-13-universities-offering-distant-learning/

 

Poor Pakistan ... first Axact, now this. Climate's not right for DL, I guess. For a country of 160 million people, their Higher Ed. environment seems, um... messy. I've noticed that Indian degrees in general seem to "travel" far better than those of Pakistan - i.e. better recognition abroad - or at least that's the way it appears, here in Canada.

 

@Johann ... not 160 million ... we are talking about 210+ million people here, i am quoting this figure from the fresh census

Well, let me put it in this way. The Higher Education environment is quite structured in itself, however, the DL environment could be termed as um...messy (of course, you can always argue that DL is part of that big picture, i.e., Higher Education, but i just segregated both of them so as to not discredit the efforts made in Pakistan's Higher Education sector over the past two decades).

But i can say for certainty that this decision has been taken for good. DL things in Pakistan are heading towards a more structured reform and Higher Education Commission is playing a momentous role in this. I was myself attached to one of the reputed Higher Education Institution (HEI) over the years and their DL programs have been recently gunned down ... the primary reason being that Higher Education Commission have given them a 'go-ahead' to run DL programs and asked them to simultaneously bring certain reforms which they failed to do within a stipulated time. Thus, enrollments were stopped and the said HEI is now working on those reforms. Perhaps, this is what would happen in US itself in case of DEAC vs. a US-based DL institution.

On the other hand, we have more established DL HEIs, such as Virtual University of Pakistan and Allama Iqbal Open University and they are not affected by these decisions. Obviously, our DL setup is not huge as this is just something very new to the locals (in terms of popularity) and people have shown a great interest in it. I am hopeful that more positive changes would come in within few years. Pakistani universities have already started marking their place in the QS rankings now.

Axact is a completely different story which ruined the country's reputation worldwide but has nothing to do with our Higher Education sector.

Won't comment on Indian degrees vs. Pakistan degrees and their recognition issues in Canada. You had a better picture of that scenario

 

Sorry about being 50 million out, on the population. I figured maybe about that number of former Pakistanis were now in Canada. Lots here!

When I said "messy" I was thinking, not of Axact, but institutions like the famous Preston University, Pakistan. Preston U. originated in Wyoming US, moving to Alabama when Wyoming passed its "accredit or die" law. Before (and maybe after, I'm not sure) Alabama declined to renew the licence of the U.S. operation, Preston Pakistan was offering "fine American degrees" to Pakistanis. You go to school in Pakistan, get your (unaccredited) U.S. degree. Their ads didn't mention the "unaccredited" part. IIRC, at one time, three or four of the nine campuses were approved by the HEC - that later dwindled to one or two.

The owner of Preston U. (Pakistan) was an individual who was previously a Vice-President of the late Dr. Maxine Asher's wonderful W.A.U.C. - World Association of Universities and Colleges, an ...um, unrecognized accreditor. He was a partner in the Preston U.S. operation but later returned to his native Pakistan, to build the Preston empire there.

That's the kind of "messy" I was talking about. The country has, in the past, been a hotbed of educational fraud. Among them was the totally-fraudulent "Florida Green University," which is long-gone now. Axact is far from the first educational fraud to hit Pakistan - just the most extensive and successful one. And as I said before, some of Pakistan's legit degrees don't seem to do well here. I've known (personally) engineers-turned-security-guards (and another who's a mortgage-broker) and I've heard of doctors from Pakistan driving cabs in Toronto. A fellow I worked with on a part-time job had the same problem. His accounting degree from a legit University in Pakistan was not recognized in Finland, where he first emigrated, nor was it recognized later, here in Canada. He's doing fine now, though. Worked three hard jobs, put some real money together, bought a couple of houses ... he knows how things work, here!

I don't hear the same sad non-recognition of degree stories - or at least hardly any - about people with Indian degrees here.

 

@Johann ... well, i am no way near to your experience of the DL sector. However, trust me, things have started changing a lot in the Pakistan's higher education landscape. Also, i still don't want to comment about the recognition of our degrees. However, i have been living abroad for 15+ years including Canada and quite proud to say that Pakistani doctors (i.e., the specialized ones) are well-respected in almost every part of Canada ... of course, i have seen that cab class too in Canada, U.S., Australia, and Europe but i don't generalize them on all of others. But your observation is of course correct .

Anyhow, i have myself never studied in a Pakistan's Higher Educational Institution, though have worked in those for over a decade. So, i have seen improvements which in a developing country context seems substantial but might not be from people living in a developed world.

To cut the long story short, i honestly want DL to excel everywhere including Pakistan and can just pray that it goes well down the road.

By the way, my own brother was a Preston's victim back in 90's and i use to live just opposite to the Preston's campus ... so have seen that episode first-hand

 

If you say it, I have every reason to believe it. That's good news.

Indeed. I shouldn't generalize either. When I got to hospital with a ticker problem a couple of years back, I was treated by several - in fact I don't believe I'd ever seen so many Pakistani doctors in one room before! All great! But the underemployment of many foreign medical professionals remains a problem here - and, as you have noted, in other countries. For some reason, it looks like Indian doctors seem to find entry into the Canadian system easier - although most of the few I have met personally were foreign-trained (UK in most instances.)

Exactly. So do I.

I am sorry to learn of your brother's experience. I hope he overcame this and had far better experiences afterward. I wish you both well.

 

Engadnan, I am sure you are a hard-working professional, dedicated to improving higher education in Pakistan. That said, I've never seen problems in the education sector more serious than those in Pakistan. I sincerely hope they will not absolutely prevent your success.

First, there is the Malala Yousafzai story. Six years ago, in Swat District, Pakistan, she was shot in the head by the Taliban, for the heinous idea of promoting education for girls. Malala returned to Pakistan the other day, for the first time in six years. Security reasons prevented her attending the opening of a school, which she had been instrumental in founding. So, there are still problems when it comes to equal education? Malala is also an honorary Canadian citizen now, and this is a Canadian you're talking to, so please don't counter with talk about the problematic number of US school shootings. And there's the high level of government corruption in Pakistan. We have crooks in our government too - but they're relatively small-time. In Pakistan, I'm talking about the judges and others who took bribes (and have been convicted) for their roles in the dismissal of proceedings against Shoaib Shaikh and his company, Axact, purveyors of hundreds of thousands of fake degrees. Fortunately, a second round of prosecutions has commenced. Better luck this time, I hope!

Another strange story. I encountered writing by an engineering professor at a University in Pakistan. He advocated complete "Qur'anization" of the engineering curriculum. He said that as all science, both known and unknown, is contained in the Qur'an, that Book must be completely embodied in the engineering curriculum. Well, some years ago, I read the Qur'an from cover to cover, (really!) and I still have no idea how to build a bridge or a power station! The Bible wasn't much help, either; I think one has to be a complete wing-nut to attempt to derive engineering calculations from Scripture of any kind! Wing-nuts should not be professors - and vice-versa.

Obviously, it'll take more than prayers - of any faith - to lift Pakistan completely clear of the Middle Ages. I hope you succeed.

 

In SVG, many people also think that the only book they need to read is the bible. I think it is crazy but that is what it is. The availability of education hopefully will be the key to changing that mindset. I am not a socialist but first world country improve even more the quality of their life but providing cheap education to the world. I think Adam Smith may just agree with me as the invisible hand working perfectly.

 

If they're fishermen, that and the weather report might suffice. Other jobs - other books.

 

I see a lot of untapped potential in SVG, and other poor countries. Many of these people, may not be able to read any other books but can read the bible and can memorize thousands of specifics versus. I see them as having the capacity of doctors, lawyers, engineers etc except that they were just too poor to receive an education. This is a loss to the entire world. The bible was all that was available. This is where MNCs and other organizations are failing or falling short. Everyone can be wealthier if free/ low cost online/distance education is available to third work countries. Nations U. had the right idea with free education outside of the USA.

 

Uh-huh. Maybe. But that was just more Bible. Religious education only. When MIT starts that,
poor countries might be OK - provided they have food, health care etc. And Americans will kick up hell, if US schools do it in any measure. "America First," says their leader.

 

Hey, but you just solved the food, healthcare etc problem. It is all about access to education, not necessarily religious education. That will also be more effective than building a border wall.

 

No! No! No! MIT has not been giving out free DL degrees overseas for many years - or even a week. Open courseware is one thing - and a very commendable one, too... but no degrees are awarded in consequence. Awarding free DL degrees en masse to overseas students is quite another thing. And I don't imagine most people, who paid full-whack for their own degrees, plus aided at great expense with their children's education - and possibly their grandchildren's, would take well to such a thing. I know I wouldn't appreciate it if a university I paid $10,000 to attend a bunch of years ago, then paid another $25-$30,000 or more for my kid to learn, started to offer free DL degrees all over some destitute land. I know that extremely able students from overseas get scholarships to highly-ranked schools, including Ivies. They're exceptional - they come over, earn their prestigious degrees and that's fine. But to export free DL degrees to all comers --- no. Just not fair to your own.

And no. Donald Trump does not pay me. I don't believe Donald Trump would pay for anything, if he thought for an instant he could get it for free. But maybe, just maybe, he might pay me $130,000 to deny that he ever rented space in my head!

Probably not. Oh well, we live in hopes...

 

I did? I recall mentioning it, not solving it. Where did I do that -- and how? Wow, I must be a "very stable genius," like that DJT fella!

 

Yes you mentioned the problems, but in your same post may have provided the solutions without knowing it, but I think you know it. Education is the solution. Educated people in third world countries will developed their countries, buy more imports from developed countries, will less likely to crash the USA border. And if they become immigrants will more likely add more value to their new country than they received.
Keeping poor people poor and uneducated just worsened the refugees and illegal immigration problems, but it does make charities richer . I hate handouts but I am all for providing education hand up to poor countries. Their is no other foreign aid program that can have this positive life changing experience on poor people.

 

What they don't need is education that consists of creating unemployed degree-holders in huge numbers. That will beget even more problems. Many more need tech and skills education - and that pretty much has to be on-ground. We have shortages in these areas and Canada fills a lot of well-paying tech and trade jobs with qualified immigrants.

If we want to help, then let's help set up tech and skills schools on their turf. And they have to build businesses (and attract others) that will need those skilled people. After all, they can't all become emigrants - we want the homeland to succeed too.

 

That seems to be a problem and not a new one. In NYC I would talk to West Indians who would pine for their home islands but couldn't return for the lack of jobs there.