Northcentral University??

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by PuppyMama, May 1, 2016.

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  1. PuppyMama

    PuppyMama New Member

    Does anyone know anything about Northcentral University and its doctorate programs? I did a quick search in the forum and didn't see much.

    It looks like it is regionally accredited, but I know very little about their reputation. The reviews online are rather polar. For some reason, while browsing their website, I get a bad feeling (haha). The only thing that has me interested is the lack of a residency requirement. For that matter, if you're aware of a reputable program without a residency requirement in the realm of psychology or sociology or anything related, I'd love to hear about it!

    I'm sure I'll either end up at Grand Canyon or I'll be waiting a decade until my kids are older and I can go the traditional route. Ugh!

    Any feedback would be very helpful! Thanks!
     
  2. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    There are mixed feelings but in general:

    Pros:
    -Regional accredited
    -100% online
    -no proctored exams
    -Can be completed in 3.5 years if motivated enough while keeping your full time job
    -Many people have completed it so it is realistic to complete it while you work
    -No GMAT or GRE

    Cons:
    -Not prestigious
    -Not ideal for candidates looking for tenure track positions that normally do not consider online schools
    -Not ideal for those that are looking for jobs that require a brand name school such as consultant at the BIG 4, executive position at fortune 500, etc.
    -Taught mainly by poorly paid adjuncts that might not be so motivated
    -Cost is more than $60 K


    I think it can work for those people looking for self improvement and a doctorate that is accredited that can open doors for adjunct work. It can also work for those looking for a career change (e.g. a Finance person wanting to into IT with a PhD in IT).

    There are some people like myself that think a foreign option is better (e.g. Australia, UK) for the same investment but you also have the bias of some people that think that foreign education is inferior.

    In general, we have few happy customers of this school that might add some views.
     
  3. PuppyMama

    PuppyMama New Member

    Wow, thank you! That was helpful! I look forward to what others have to say.
     
  4. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    I would also add that they--like every distance learning doctorate in psychology--aren't accredited by the APA. This makes licensure more difficult. It can still be done, however.

    (Fielding Graduate University is the only DL program accredited by APA. When the APA made some noises about dropping Fielding, Fielding made some noises about filing a lawsuit. Both sides stopped making noises.)
     
  5. Neuhaus

    Neuhaus Well-Known Member

    My feeling about Northcentral is that the school is "fine."

    I'd certainly weight all of the other options. But if NCU is the best fit for your needs then I'd say go for it. They aren't cheap and that's a major con. But one must also consider the opportunity cost. If the choice is do something I really really want to do today for $60k versus do it years from now, maybe if I can, strongly weighs in favor of paying for the more expensive program.

    What I will say is that you might just want to think about low residency programs particularly as you weigh cost. Residencies might seem like a pain. But if your choice is $30k for a program that requires a total of four weeks (four separate week long residencies) and a $60k no residency program then the travel all of the sudden might seem a bit more reasonable. Even if you flew first class and stayed in the fanciest of fancy pants hotels you'll still come out ahead (financially) and have the bonus of going somewhere for your doctorate.

    Naturally, that still doesn't work for everyone. If you grow rare and fragile orchids that require daily specialized care then going away for a week might not be an option. But just consider all possible avenues.
     
  6. Garp

    Garp Well-Known Member

    Hard to add to what RF Valve said. What field are you looking at getting a Doctorate in and what are you planning to do with it (why do you want it)?

    As RFValve notes there are more affordable and prestigious foreign options. There are people doing research doctorates at South African institutions and working with recognized scholars. That might be more beneficial if academia is a goal. Would recommend visiting the campus periodically so you can say you have actually been. But cost saving is huge and more prestige.

    If you are just wanting to study at the doctoral level for its own sake and not any other reason a DEAC doctorate (EdD, DBA,) might work at considerable savings. A TRACs school offers a PhD in Leadership for around mid 20s.

    Again, goals and purpose are important. If you are well off then sky is the limit.
     
  7. PuppyMama

    PuppyMama New Member

    Thanks to everyone for all of your information and help.

    Honestly, I am just a mom who wants to fulfill a life-long goal. My master's program was awesome. I won some awards for my research; one of which came from a professional conference. After graduating, a couple of my thesis committee members asked me to publish with them. I guess it kind of gave me an adrenaline rush when I finally realized what I wanted to do with my life and that I was good at it, at least according to a few people. I miss that feeling of being excited for research and finally finding my niche in life (sorry for the cheese). Unfortunately, I didn't realize this until I hit my thirties and it was time to either have kids or... not... so I picked the family. I know I can have both, I just need to be creative about it, which is why I have been interested in for-profits. I sort of feel like if I don't finish what I started, I'd be selling myself short. This might sound ridiculous, but to me, a master's feels like half of a doctorate the way that an associate's feels like half of a bachelor's.

    So basically, I want to do this to reach a goal. I'd LOVE to teach, but it's my understanding that it might not be very realistic.

    I'm not loaded! I'd be using financial aid. Maybe I'm just fiscally stupid! Lol.
     
  8. Neuhaus

    Neuhaus Well-Known Member

    If licensure isn't your desired pathway then, in my opinion, the options open up pretty dramatically.

    It sounds like you have some experience in publication. So a PhD by Published Works from a UK university might help you realize your dream without the coursework and at a fraction of the cost. I believe the norm is to have 6-7 peer reviewed articles before you apply and then write a paper to tie all of your work together. Unlikely to get you a license. Though, if you are a publication machine I would imagine you would stand a decent chance at getting a teaching position. At the very least you'd be at no greater disadvantage than having a PhD from an "online university."

    You might also consider an EdD. The American College of Education's online EdD might have a concentration that suits your needs and they are pretty affordable (they are regionally accredited).

    But the online EdD offerings seem to be more plentiful and may allow you to shape a program to meet your needs.

    In any case, I would explore some of these options before committing to NCU. If they meet your needs better than anyone else; go for it. But make sure that is the case before you commit to something so costly, IMHO.
     
  9. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    In general, perhaps, but your circumstances might be different.

    Going to a distance learning school is not normally a pathway for entry into traditional academe. First, the schools typically don't carry that kind of reputation. Second, the DL doctorate doesn't prepare you for an academic career by virtue of its lack of on-campus networking. Finally, students going to such programs are typically--but not exclusively--experienced practitioners in their fields, using the doctorate to advance in their practice.

    An anecdote-based case can be made for exceptions, particularly when the university really wants to hire you and will be glad you did an accredited doctorate so they may do so. But don't expect to start answering ads in the back of the Chronicle of Higher Education and start lining up interviews. Even candidates who do the doctorate at the traditional time and place drown in that current. It's a standard meme in higher education.

    Finally, a master's is not "half of a doctorate" like an associate's is to a bachelor's. It is a separate degree. If you go from a bachelor's into a PhD program, you'll do a master's along the way--whether or not you're actually awarded one. But a master's is the end of the line for a lot of people and an associate's is a barely recognized way station along the path to the actual degree, the bachelor's. Plus, the doctorate will have its own set of course work beyond the master's. Still, even completing that still doesn't put you "half way" towards a doctorate. The doctoral dissertation is the key and is unlike any previous experience--even a master's thesis. Some people use "ABD" ("all but dissertation) informally--and try sometimes to use it formally. But that makes the dissertation sound like dessert--instead of the main course. Far from it. The dissertation distinguishes the doctorate. In fact, I wish schools would award their "ABDs" a second master's and send them on their way. Better than--and more informative than--"ABD."

    If you're not hung up on teaching as an adjunct (or taking that slim shot at an assistant professorship), getting a professional doctorate from a DEAC-accredited school might be an option for you. Less expensive, more flexible, etc.
     
  10. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    Back in the day, there was a time when there were few options and Northcentral made sense.

    Now, however, if you're willing to pay that much you can do better, and if you want to pay a lot less you can do just as well.
     
  11. John Bear

    John Bear Senior Member

    Over the years, I've heard from many people who happily and successfully completed relatively inexpensive non-resident doctorates from good universities in Australia, the UK, and Africa. I've written about Doug Dean, who writes the 'degrees for prisoners' section of my book, who earned his PhD in psychology from the University of South Africa while in a maximum security prison; while still incarcerated, he is a licensed psychologist in the state of Wisconsin. Tom Head, who used to post her often, earned his PhD 100% non-residentially from Cowan, a major Australian university. The late "Uncle Janko" who posted her often did his doctorate from a recognized South African university without leaving home. And so it goes. Lots of shopping around, and understanding that even when a short residency is mentioned, it can sometimes be done (as my wife did at Cal State Dominguez Hills) by internet, phone, and fax. (Hers was an MA). Best wishes in your worthy quest.
     
  12. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    It depends on your field. I see a PhD from NCU been able to find full time work as faculty in IT, finance, accounting or statistics at a small CC, college or university. I teach in these areas and am always being able to find adjunct work. However, adjunct work is poorly paid and people with PhDs in these areas are normally able to find better paid work as consultants. There are some full time positions at small schools willing to hire a PhD from NCU but salaries are not very attractive, you might be able to find a full time position in the middle of nowhere for 50K a year with little opportunity for promotion due to the size of the school. Most people would rather adjunct online for the same salary and stay in metropolitan areas.

    I see that you are in psychology, I believe there are opportunities in Organizational Psychology or Clinical Psychology. There is not a shortage of education doctorates so I would stay away from this area.

    There are some threads in this forum that recommend South Africa PhDs instead of schools like NCU mainly because of cost. I believe that a solid SA PhD is better than a PhD from NCU but we also have to be realistic. Although a PhD from NCU is expensive, it is realistic to get one from this school as these programs are meant for working people that have busy lives and are friendly enough for those that do not have time to attend conferences, publish, etc.

    SA PhDs are meant for academics already in academic positions that just need the PhD for promotion so you should expect a more rigorous and demanding program that might be not so easy to attain.

    Also, although in theory a SA PhD is better in terms of quality and reputation, most people will wonder that your CV has mainly american degrees and you top it up with an obscure school from South Africa. This would raise too many questions that you might not even give the chance to answer. NCU would raise less questions and would be perceived as an unranked accredited school but good enough to avoid credibility issues.

    As for the PhDs by publication, it is also not very realistic. These programs are not meant for working professionals. I my self tried to get a higher doctorate with more than 60 peer review publications and got rejected from five schools for different reasons such as lack of supervisors in my field, journals not found in a list that school recognize, supervisors not being available due to overload, etc. In few words, it is not easy to find a match that can understand your research and is willing to supervise. These programs are meant mainly for staff currently working at the university that are already working with faculty and just need the PhD, although open to outsiders, it is not very realistic to be admitted to one with your few publications from non top journals.
     
  13. PuppyMama

    PuppyMama New Member

    I cannot thank you all enough for your information. Based on what you have said, NCU just seems terribly expensive for a school that doesn't have much of a name (sorry if that offends anyone). I hadn't considered looking into education PhDs or EdDs without residencies... I think I will investigate that avenue and see what I find.

    I appreciate you all so much. I love this community!
     
  14. Mighty_Tiki

    Mighty_Tiki Member

    If Me-Again is still around I think he received his doctorate from there.
     
  15. Neuhaus

    Neuhaus Well-Known Member

    I can't imagine anyone realistically being offended by your statement.

    There was a time when it made sense to go with NCU for some people based upon their unique situation. There was a time when a UPhoenix MBA made sense (and likely a few limited situations where it still makes sense). Now there are more options.
     
  16. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    Hello, a British program would cost you about 30,000 pounds that is about 60,000 USD. What NCU sells is not really name but convenience, their programs are structured so people can complete part time while the British PhD programs are normally one long thesis so it is all or nothing.

    If you want to go for an EdD, the british programs are course based so you might be able to find something similar to what NCU offers but with more name recognition.

    Although 60K sounds like a lot, it is at the bottom of the scale when it comes to US
    doctorates. Nova charges more plus it requires residencies. Capella is more expensive unless you complete full time. NCU is actually one the cheapest for for proft doctorates,
     
  17. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    You're not paying for the name. You're paying for access to a degree that you might--at least in times past--not be able to access traditionally.

    But as Neuhaus has noted, times have changed a bit. Shop around.

    Be aware that the British PhD route isn't necessarily completely non-campus-based. Your advisor will have a lot of discretion in that regard, and you may not know to what extent until you're well into the degree. Also, check to see if an on-campus thesis defense is required. RFValve's point about all-or-nothing is worth noting, but a PhD program that results in a failed thesis will often see the award downgraded to an MPhil.
     
  18. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    We discuss here a lot British PhDs but we actually have very few that have completed these programs. Rich is the only that I know from this forum and it was not a PhD but a Doctorate. I know few people that started but never completed, it requires a lot of self discipline to complete a program with little structure and rigorous format. Most British PhDs require on site defense and few visits.
    We are talking about very different products, a doctorate from a for profit is very structured and it is not meant for academics but targeted for professionals so the focus is not on publications, conferences, etc but on professional development. The workload is designed so people can spend 10 to 20 hrs a week in the program and they reduce stressful components such as exams, publications, etc so it is really designed for the working adult.
    British PhDs on the other hand are demanding and assume that you are a young aspiring academic that is willing to put long hours to get your degree. It assumes publications, heavy research, etc that normally is not possible for someone with heavy commitments.
    By the way, NCU PhD is not 60K but 70K, it seems that tuition fees increased since the last time I checked.

    I was accepted for the NCU PhD in CS when the tuition fee was 6K for the full program. I regret having not taken the program at such a low rate.
     
  19. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Yes, I did a "taught" doctorate, but it was just as rigorous as the PhD. The thesis requirement was shorter than for the PhD (50,000 vs. 80,000 words), but (a) this was a bug, not a feature and (b) you still did 28,000-or-so words in the taught portion. So the writing load is about the same. Except....it was very hard to stay withing the strict 50,000-word limit, especially if you did a qualitative study (like I did).

    The differences between a DL doctorate and a traditional one (as RFValve points out, but without the for-profit distinction) is real. Our students were working professionals, so we didn't write scholarly papers or present at and attend conferences. But the amounts of work--and the standards for it--were the same as seen by on-campus students.

    I asked several people about the difference between the thesis for the DSocSci and PhD. No one could ever point out a structural difference. You still had to cover all the same ground as the PhD (intro, literature review, methods section, presenting and analyzing data, concluding chapter(s), etc.), but you had less space within which to do it. What's the difference between a DSocSci thesis and a PhD thesis? It's shorter.
     
  20. lawsonry

    lawsonry New Member

    I'm a current doctoral student at NCU. I wrote a long thread about why I decided to leave Capella for NCU a while back (it's in my post history if you're interested).

    I'm working toward a PhD in Education. I also write and publish. I am a self-starter, hyper-motivated, and very self-disciplined. These traits are imperative because of the way Northcentral's class offerings are structured.

    Each course will have some variation of the following:

    * Weekly assigned readings, then a weekly assignment. So far 2/6 courses I've taken so far have required more than one assignment per week, and both had to do with research and statistics.

    * For most courses, assignments are papers or parts of a longer end of course paper, generally 3-8 pages in length each week.

    * These assignments are due Sunday night, and you will receive feedback on them the following Thursday.

    * The feedback is 90% APA style guidance and corrections, and 10% content, with a standard deviation of about 5% depending on the instructor. I can only think of one class out of the six I've taken so far where the instructor was going out of his way to use the MS Office comments as a way to talk about what I was writing. Very in-depth comments, lots of rhetorical questions, things like that to help guide my future research/work.

    * Going along those lines, you can see that you need to be extremely self-motivated and disciplined. NCU is PERFECT for someone like me who does not want to be fed information, but rather to discover it themselves. I enjoy critically reading, note-taking, synthesizing knowledge in a way that suits me, etc. NCU is TERRIBLE for someone who needs a structured learning path. (FWIW, I think this is NCU's strongest selling point: Doctoral degrees for extremely self-motivated individuals).

    * The assignments are fairly predictable, and the content is not difficult at all. However, the assignments do not have the typical structure that one might come to expect. For example, in a Higher Education Law course I took recently, one assignment was "Write an 8 page paper on faculty employment rights." Another assignment was "Write a 10 page paper on state action." If you are comfortable with taking something vague like that and turning it into a paper, then NCU is right for you. If, however, you need more guidance than that, consider Capella -- that's where I came from, and it was a bit too hand-holding for me. (That's not a bad thing, it's just that some people like to be left alone [me] and others like to be integrated into their school with a more structured learning path).

    I don't think NCU is good for anyone who is not comfortable being left alone to teach, manage, and mentor themselves. Your mileage may vary, though; I have three small children, a full-time job, teach online part-time, run a weekly higher education leadership column on my website, and am working on my second book about data science in higher education. I don't have time to consider how someone else wants to frame knowledge for me; I need to discover knowledge my own way, so that I can digest it and use it in ways that strengthen my own research interests.

    Research is the final note I will leave this on. It used to be that people would not be accepted into a doctoral program unless they knew what they wanted to study. This is just not true anymore with the proliferation of online doctoral programs. At Capella, I found that a significant majority of students in my classes had no idea what they wanted to study in their lives, let alone research for their dissertations. Capella seemed to encourage holding off on choosing a topic, and has setup three in-person colloquiums that are designed to workshop research ideas and get students focused on a particular idea. Again, great if you want that kind of personal attention, terrible if you learn better by yourself. NCU seems to just assume everyone knows what they want to write their dissertation on, because I can't seem to come up with a better reason why all their assignments would be so vague and unstructured. It's great for me because I see a question like "Write a 10 page paper on Topic A" and I can spend half of that paper incorporating this new concept of the week into my dissertation research topic.

    I hope this summary helps. Read about why I left Capella (in my post history) if you're interested in a more in-depth reasoning.

    EDIT: I wanted to add that I recently got the following email from our President:

     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 5, 2016

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