SNHU vs Liberty vs Bellevue

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by b4cz28, Feb 16, 2016.

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  1. Neuhaus

    Neuhaus Well-Known Member

    Whether it matters is really a personal decision for each person considering the school. I've met people who refuse to buy IBM products because of IBM's European division providing equipment to the nazis that was used in concentration camps.

    There are people who likewise take issue with Mercedes, Hugo Boss and countless other European firms which were founded after the war by the direct descendants of some pretty horrible people. It's a judgment call that everyone has to make for themselves.

    It was one of the stated purposes of the school's founding.
    So, is it your contention that by 1971 all segregationists basically threw up their hands and said "well guys, we lost, let's move on?" Falwell was trying to resist desegregation (you know, because he was a rabid segregationist). And he was trying to hide behind the constitution to further his reprehensible social policies in the same way that Bob Jones University prohibited interracial dating.

    Bigots seldom let the progress of the outside world deter them.
     
  2. b4cz28

    b4cz28 Active Member



    Yes their founder left in her will it was to be for white ladies only. The school was in fact for most of its existence a segragated institution. It's relevant because one can not even mention the words Liberty University around here with out crap being stired up. Yet they never mention any of the recent and past history's of other schools mentioned. It's plain and simple bigotry on the posters part. I will not mention names though.
     
  3. FTFaculty

    FTFaculty Well-Known Member

    Liberty's checkered past is mentioned in large part because the Falwells have done so much to thrust themselves into the political and social limelight and change the culture to represent their own views. Republican presidential candidates so often make the pilgrimage to Liberty or give praise for Falwell's great patriotism. The more you make yourself something that's noticed, the more you get noticed, the more you get noticed, the more feelings you evoke from others, both positive and negative. How many have ever heard of Sweet Briar? Are they the mecca for Republican candidates?

    I'm not convinced it's fair to state that all criticisms of Liberty are at bottom anti-conservative Christian bigotry. I am a conservative Christian, so I'm naturally not bigoted against my own views, but I don't think Liberty should get a pass, Falwell made many bigoted statements in his history, and most certainly did make them on the basis of race. Absent some major public contrition and repentance therefore, a la George Wallace, which so far as I know never happened, I see no reason to let it go. It is what it is.

    And while there may be some on this forum who are inclined against conservative Christians, that absolutely cannot be said about me. I'm bigoted against political creatures who use God as a tool to further their own self-serving agendas, and I won't apologize for that. Falwell and Liberty represent a vile sort of pseudo Christianity.
     
  4. sanantone

    sanantone Well-Known Member

    The history of SNHU as a for-profit has been discussed several times. The recent history of University of the Cumberlands was discussed about a year or two ago when its PhD programs were advertised.

    I can't find anything on Liberty University being founded as a whites-only school. There was just one article on a left-leaning website mentioning that Liberty University started admitting non-whites at some point suggesting that it didn't admit non-whites originally, but there was no source for it. The segregation school that Jerry Falwell founded was Lynchburg Christian Academy. It is now called Liberty Christian Academy and was founded in 1967 as a way to circumvent desegregation. Jerry Falwell and others started these segregation schools and called them Christian schools using their religious beliefs to justify their whites-only status. In 1971, the Supreme Court decided that segregation schools should lose their tax-exempt status; but, according to this book, Liberty Christian Academy started admitting blacks in 1969.
    https://books.google.com/books?id=u3aJmNF9AKQC&pg=PA23#v=onepage&q&f=false
     
  5. sanantone

    sanantone Well-Known Member

    I agree with FTFaculty. Liberty receives a lot of criticism because it draws a lot of negative attention to itself. There was the controversy over Liberty no longer officially recognizing the Democrat club even though members of the club were pro-life and against same-sex marriage. While they could still meet on campus, they were no longer allowed to use the university's name and would no longer receive funding.

    Op-Ed: Media's misrepresentation of club controversy | Liberty University

    Then, there was the controversy over Liberty making the Ted Cruz speech a convocation. On-campus students are required to attend convocation or face a $10 fine. While this can only be realistically enforced against students who live on campus because they use RAs to take attendance, this still looked like Liberty was endorsing a politician, which would be in violation of its tax-exempt status. The question is: Liberty has allowed Democrats to speak on campus, but have they ever made it a requirement for students to attend their speeches?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 17, 2016
  6. curtisc83

    curtisc83 New Member

    It was the stated purpose in the founding of LCA back in the 60's. They even put it in the local paper (see history link below). But I couldn't find it being one of the reasons LU was founded. I'm not saying Jerry Sr. didn't want to make a white only college because I bet he did. But I don't like to connect dots that aren't there it happened or it didn't. As far as I can tell LU wasn't founded for that purpose. If someone can find something official or maybe an old advertisement for LU being a only white school I would honestly like to see it. I welcome the history lesson and find all of this extremely fascinating.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberty_Christian_Academy
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 17, 2016
  7. curtisc83

    curtisc83 New Member

    All convocation's are required for students that live on campus there is no exception (see below). When Sanders spoke at LU attendance was required. If the marshmallow man spoke at LU it would still be required to attend. The news made it news because they cherry picked facts and didn't tell the whole story. Anti-LU folks ran wild with it because that's just how they are.

    Couldn't paste the text using my iPhone. Go to page 3 the convo rules are there.
    http://www.liberty.edu/media/1210/On-Campus_Living_Guide.pdf
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 17, 2016
  8. rebel100

    rebel100 New Member

    Can I ask why you want to take the time, money, and effort to grab a secomd bachelors? There are some good reasons for it, but I always wonder why folks want a second undergrad when a masters is often just as long, and potentially just as cheap.
     
  9. b4cz28

    b4cz28 Active Member


    I have to say my wife asked the same question. I started all this wanting to learn more about management and now I really feel the need to enter into ministry. Anyways to get back to the point I wanted to enter into a masters program in management that required an regionally accredited bachelors. I tell you today I no longer feel the need to bend to social pressure to hold a secular degree (family and work) and I think I will pursue another bachelors degree in theology but at a r/a school so I will not be so limited in my choices for my M.Div.
     
  10. rebel100

    rebel100 New Member

    Sounds like you've reasoned it out. I would caution you against taking on debt for this, the debt can make you a slave. My only beef with any of your choices is cost.
     
  11. b4cz28

    b4cz28 Active Member

    Do you have any others which might be a bit cheaper?
     
  12. curtisc83

    curtisc83 New Member

  13. rebel100

    rebel100 New Member

    I can think of dozens which should be a LOT cheaper, quicker potentially as well.

    It seems to me that you should already have a pretty good grasp on many subjects form your DEAC degree. In my mind this makes you a great candidate for a test out RA degree from one of the "big 3"; Charter Oak State College, Thomas Edison State University, and Excelsior College. Many members of this forum have degrees from these institutions. By using alternative credit sources and credit by exam you can earn a regionally accredited bachelors for as little as $3500...that's total price. I doubt that would buy you a semester at Liberty. I suspect your AGS at Clovis would give you a nice head start and you could return there to complete an AA before moving on to a RA bachelors program.

    Alternatively, many State Universities now have online programs to complete a bachelors. I don't know what your three choices are offering in transfer credit for your work at Clovis, but you could add some courses there to bring the overall cost down pretty much wherever you want to go. CSU-Pueblo provides a nice online formatted BA/BS in Social science with a ton of cool self paced courses at around $165/credit. Undergraduate Degree Program > Division of Extended Studies > Colorado State University-Pueblo that just as an example of what's out there. You didn't mention specifically what you wanted to study nor what state you are in, this info might make it easier to advise you.

    I believe American Military/Public University might still accept NA degrees for those wishing to pursue a regionally accredited Masters, there are probably a few other schools out there still who do this. I would look at all of them before I went and did a second BS/BA. Graduate Students | AMU Admissions programs offered: Find a Program | American Military University

    You have hundreds of options for the undergrad, the three schools you've chosen to look at wouldn't even make my list short of a full ride scholarship.




    Another option
     
  14. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator

    Fort Hays is <$200 per undergrad credit
     
  15. curtisc83

    curtisc83 New Member

    He mentioned in a post he wants a RA bachelors degree in theology so his choices for a M.Div aren't so limited.
     
  16. rebel100

    rebel100 New Member

    If that's the case I would research my bachelor granting schools and find the one that will take the most transfer credits. I would then go to a school like Clovis and knock out as many of those lower level courses as possible. this will likely be 60-90 credits. http://www.liberty.edu/undergrad/index.cfm?PID=20726 Liberty for example only requires 30 credits in residence so plan on those 30 plus whatever you can't earn through the CC. Then transfer to Liberty only in that last year. that would provide the most potential savings plus keep things flexible till the end. Transfer Admissions | Liberty University Undergrad Admissions

    Will school that offer an M.Div require an undergrad in Theology? If they will accept a more secular undergrad like Psychology or Social Science there will be a lot more programs and schools to choose from.

    I hate the way Churches seem to require degree's from these specific schools which in turn charge outrageous fees/tuition for the degree. Seems to me that it places a heavy burden of debt onto the very people who need freedom of conscience the most.
     
  17. Neuhaus

    Neuhaus Well-Known Member

    Global University (RA/DEAC) would also be an option worth considering.
     
  18. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

  19. StefanM

    StefanM New Member

    For a standard M.Div., the vast, vast majority of schools will accept people without undergraduate degrees in theology, and IIRC, most M.Div. students do not hold degrees in theology or religious studies.

    The major exception might be if a school has an advanced M.Div. program for those with undergraduate degrees in theology, religion, ministry, etc. Nevertheless, even with these schools, the standard M.Div. can just be pursued.

    I highly recommend that people pursue undergraduate degrees outside of ministry, anyway. It's not just a back-up plan---if a person needs to work in a bivocational capacity, having an undergraduate degree in a non-religious field could be much more helpful than having both an undergraduate and graduate degree in ministry. I certainly know that I regret pursuing my undergraduate degree in ministry.

    I would recommend that those who are interested in going to seminary should major in something other than ministry at the bachelor's level. If possible, a minor in theology, etc. could be a helpful supplement. Take Greek and/or Hebrew courses, if possible.
     
  20. rebel100

    rebel100 New Member

    Sounds like great advice.

    At our former Church the leaders were pushing this kid in the youth group into a ministry program at a local Christian College. His goal was to become a worship pastor, a job that pays in the teens to mid 20's (if your lucky). I do appreciate being called to serve, but I thought I would have a stroke when I realized they were encouraging this kid to take on loans to the tune of $25K plus over 4 years. Imagine that? Borrowing 100K to get a job paying maybe $20K...the guy will be forever in debt and make decisions for the next 20 plus years based not on what God has called him to, but rather to service of that massive ill advised loan!
     

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