Mentally drained, trying to decide on a degree,major,path

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by Annieways, Jan 18, 2016.

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  1. Annieways

    Annieways New Member

    I am 25 years old, have 26 earned credits from community college. I would have had more but due to moving around, I had to take some time off from school. On the bright side, I have been able to maintain a great job but it is no career, just doing administrative office work dealing with properties and have over 5 years exp but it is a very small company,no benefits, can't say I will still have it in the next upcoming years.

    I am in that point where I would like to settle down, I'm engaged,saving money for a house, will have kids in the next upcoming years.

    However, I want to accomplish and get a degree, I feel that I started college and although it's just 26 earned credits from general classes, it's still something that I want to finish.

    I just have no idea what I want to do, or what I am good at. I wish, I was able to say I am 100% sure that I want to work at a hospital, so that way my choices with narrow down, for instance nursing, it's in demand, you can do with associates ..but I don't really like nursing.


    Now, I can say what I don't like.. math, unstable long night shifts, and anything that is limited to or requires a masters degree or above.

    It's not to say that I wouldn't want to achieve a masters degree, if that were the case I'd be an Art Therapist lol. But honestly, I don't have the time or money to afford a masters degree, probably not even a bachelors.

    I printed out all the majors,degrees and programs at my school and narrowed it down to the ones I may be interested in which are:

    Education - Birth through 4th grade or the middle years. (This caught my attention, when I was little I wanted to be a teacher. Now, that I am older I don't know if this is my calling, I can say I do like the idea of being creative, inspirational, having a class room, teaching. But, I can't say at the moment if I know it's a passion of mine and this is a mandatory Bachelors which = invested money. I also liked the idea of administrative,school counseling but this all requires a masters.

    Then, I thought

    Psychology - Psychology interests me. Anything dealing with the mind, people, but is it a career choice? Because in the end, we all know in order to be a psychologist you need a masters/ph.d. So, an A.A won't do much and a bachelors, may open a few doors, but it's too broad for me to say "I like psychology, I'll get my BA in psychology.. but have no idea what position I want"

    Then I thought Human or Social Services, sure I can get my A.A in this and work with people and um that's about as far as my mind takes me there.

    Finally, I thought real estate, not sure what degree that falls under my college has a degree called "Management: Real Estate Concentration (A.A.S). Main reason why i'd consider this is because of my current job, it's not exactly real estate but I thought my five years admin work in an office dealing with mortgages will look good along with a real estate degree, and let's see where that takes me even if I can't say it's a passion.


    I don't qualify for financial aid, which is why I am at least trying to aim for an A.A but I know that I can only do so much with that. Also, every class I take for now on will cost me money,that's about $169 per credit hour. And here, I am still trying to decide on a degree, and feeling like time is passing me by ..
     
  2. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator

    One thing I've known people to do is to go to the website of a large employer (like a hospital) and look at their job openings. It begins to give you a clearer idea of what's out there, what you would actually do in such a job and what the educational/training requirements are. You can do it in any field, not just healthcare.
     
  3. Annieways

    Annieways New Member

    Thank you for your response Kizmet,
    I've been going through Indeed, typing in random job titles and just reading on the requirements and job description. You're right, it does help a lot that's what made me scratch nursing off the list. I guess I just have a problem trying to visualize myself in a certain field with out beating myself up thinking, "Is this for me, should I invest money in this degree, etc etc
     
  4. sanantone

    sanantone Well-Known Member

    In many states, only an associate's or bachelor's is required to become a substance abuse/addictions/chemical dependency counselor. You can also earn a BSW and work as a social worker at the bachelor's level, but the career opportunities at that level are limited. With a bachelor's in psychology, you can work in community supervision (parole or probation), child or adult protective services, and various caseworker positions in criminal justice agencies.

    Another option would be to earn your associate's and/or bachelor's dirt cheap at one of the Big 3 (Thomas Edison State College, Charter Oak State College, and Excelsior College) by utilizing CLEP, DSST, Straighterline, etc. leaving more money for a master's degree. You can also look into your state's alternative teacher certification pathway if it has one. This way, you can earn your bachelor's cheaply and work toward certification afterward.
     
  5. Annieways

    Annieways New Member

    Thank you for replying! Will look into that. I did see a few jobs online working for different agencies that had to do with counseling and required at least an associates in Human/Social Services. But, something keeps drifting me over to Education field. The school setting, the students, it is an overall positive environment pushing everyone to exceed, it seems like something I can do long term.. just need to give it more thought I suppose.
     
  6. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator

    People work as para-professionals in schools, usually as a part of the Special Ed department, without any college degree. Your coursework would give you an advantage in that situation and you would get the opportunity to work in that setting with kids and see if you like it before committing to an ed program.
     
  7. Annieways

    Annieways New Member

    That would actually be perfect Kizmet, and will look into that as well! That's actually the options I am trying to search for, different professions in the field, without limiting it to just being a teacher or the obvious roles. A nice salary would be a bonus, but I know I would have to work my way through that.

    I know for a fact that I would love a school setting/department even if I don't work directly with the students but being able to be a part of it.
     
  8. cookderosa

    cookderosa Resident Chef

    Honestly, I think you're off to a great start. First of all, if you WERE coming here with 99% of your degree finished, you'd have real trouble finding a school to take all those credits (resulting in credit loss) or you'd be pigeon-holed into something you may or may not want to finish. You have the perfect amount of credit: enough to give you a head start but not too many that you don't have options.

    If you want to do real estate, you can take the prep course and state exam through your local community college without earning a degree. In fact, you can sign up tomorrow. There is no reason to roll that into a degree unless you want to do it as a career.

    Second, you're mixing up two degree types and they are important to point out. In your list, you've got AA and AAS. The difference is that the AAS isn't going to transfer into a 4 year degree (which isn't to say you'll get nothing, but the AA will give you a full transfer of ~60 credits where the AAS will give you a transfer of ~15. If you're headed toward a 120 credit bachelors, knowing the limitations is important)

    Finally, psychology won't land you a job. To practice in psychology, you need a master's or higher, so if cost is an issue, this degree (from your list) would give you the least return on investment.

    My money is on the real estate license. Cheapest = immediate employment.

    Also, you can probably test out of many classes at your community college for CHEAP. This isn't nearly as hard as it sounds. I used CLEP and tested out of an entire AA degree for about $1000.
     
  9. TonyM

    TonyM Member

    I want to second Sanantone's advice to get a cheap degree from one of the Big Three. You should have better idea of what you want by the time you finish. A liberal studies degree will get you into a master's in many fields, including psychology and education. If you use a lot of tests for credit you should be finished fairly quickly.
     
  10. Annieways

    Annieways New Member

    Thanks cookederosa, you made a great point that I never realized. I think it would have been more frustrating for me if I were half way done and then decided to change majors. Also, you mentioned the difference between the AA and AAS, I didn't even know that lol. I thought, they were both meant to transfer you to a four year degree, that explains a lot, and perhaps the AAS has more concentrated classes rather than the general classes that we all want to get through the fastest.

    I'm currently going through a roller coaster of confusion, but I should decide sometime soon.
     
  11. Annieways

    Annieways New Member

    Thanks Tony! I am going to look into those Big Three, don't know if they have them here where I live but they may offer online courses
     
  12. Neuhaus

    Neuhaus Well-Known Member

    In many states no degree at all is required to become a substance abuse counselor. The money sucks, however, and to get your foot in the door the odds are you are going to have to work in a residential program on third shift to "get your foot in the door." Is that always the case? No. But it can be competitive, especially when it comes to the choice hours (i.e. first shift).

    The money is also less than desirable. At the time I worked as a counselor, I was making around $10/hr which was amazing for a college student living at home. I was making double what some of my classmates were earning (minimum wage at the time being lower) in their part-time college jobs. But part of the reason I abandoned my B.A. was the reality that I was working alongside other counselors, making the same wage, despite the fact that many of them had B.A.s (and one had an MSW).

    Today, the money isn't terrible in some places. But I would also say that there is a very large disconnect between being interested in the field of psychology and in providing mental health services to people with addictions. And it is a life that isn't for everyone. It is hard. It is emotionally draining. It can be rewarding as well, mind you. But it is a face of society that most people are not comfortable coming into contact with on a daily basis.

    The facility where I worked dealt mostly with court ordered treatment. So a significant number of people treating with us did not want to be clean. And many of them were there in lieu of jail. Some were violent. Thefts from staff were common. Fights between patients were frequent. And there were numerous times when I had to write notes that included the phrase "states s/he does not give a f---- about treatment." I never really felt myself in physical danger. But there was a huge risk in becoming too emotionally invested in the people I worked with. I remember after my first year as a trainee I worked with a woman who had shown great promise and was eager and ready to tackle the world and regain custody of her kids. I had such hope and promise that I had finally reached someone in a sort of Edward James Olmos sort of way only to hear that she was arrested four hours after she left when she immediately ran back to her old drug house.

    That said, I have friends and colleagues from that era who have gone on to work at the sort of places where the Affluenza teen was sent, however briefly, to detox and it's a completely different world. There, I am told, the challenge is in customer satisfaction. If Poppy and Skylar give you a good review on the exit questionnaire you live to pay your bills another month. If they give you crappy survey results you might actually have a problem. So, addictions counselor? Yeah, that's up to you. But just because you enjoy reading about Jung and Skinner and Bronfrenbreiner doesn't mean you'll enjoy making a living out of helping people detox.

    But having a B.A. in Psychology can also work for a variety of other jobs. I have a number of colleagues who, with their B.A. in Psych, work in HR. You would absolutely need to tack a few certifications on as well to make yourself competitive. But there was a time when you could thrive in HR without a degree at all (as long as you had the certs). That is changing. Even entry level HR jobs require a bachelors now. The major doesn't matter so much.

    I've also seen people with degrees in psych successfully integrate into marketing and business intelligence. Like HR, it means you need to have education and possibly certifications outside of your degree. But you'll need that to pursue substance abuse counselor certification as well.
     
  13. cookderosa

    cookderosa Resident Chef

    The single difference between the AA and the AAS is the general education content. If you look at a 4-year degree, the first 2 years are called "general education" it's when you get your English, math, history, psychology, etc all done. The last 2 years are the meat of the degree. When you take an AAS, it's all meat - few gen eds. In most cases about 15 gen eds total. As such, when you transfer, you still have those 2 years of gen eds to do! But you're asking, what about the meat? I've already done that right? No, because the meat of a 4 year degree comes from classes in the 300 and 400 level, while the meat of an AAS comes from 100 and 200 level classes. :(

    That said, that doesn't mean the AAS isn't right for you. My first degree -the one where I learned my craft_ was an AAS degree (AOS same thing). The AA I earned later was from scratch, none of my AAS credit transferred. If I had to assess the value of my degrees, my AOS had 100000% more return on investment than my AA, BA, or MS. In other fields (like psychology) that wouldn't be true. So, really, there is no one right way, only the way that works best for your situation. Good luck!
     
  14. sanantone

    sanantone Well-Known Member

    I'm currently a substance abuse counselor in a correctional facility, but I've worked with the homeless, addicts, and inmates in previous jobs, so I'm pretty much desensitized to all of that stuff. You can expect to make very little money as a substance abuse counselor intern, but that's true of most fields. However, the median salary for a substance abuse counselor is around $39k. That's not bad for a field that often requires less than a bachelor's degree.

    People with degrees in psychology can also work in UX/UI design after acquiring some web design skills. But, just like you said that enjoying the study of psychology does not mean you'll enjoy substance abuse counseling, the same could be said about UX/UI design and human resources. I loved studying psychology, but organizational behavior, leadership, and human resources-related courses have been some of the most boring courses I have ever had to suffer through. Actually, I can't think of any other subject I took that was more boring than organizational behavior and leadership.
     
  15. Neuhaus

    Neuhaus Well-Known Member

    The way I look at degrees like psychology is that they are degrees. They will meet the requirements for virtually any job where the requirement is "bachelors degree." I mention HR because you can kind of/sort of make a connection between psych and HR by virtue of the fact that I/O psych crosses both worlds.

    You can draw a similar connection in marketing since the psychology of marketing is a known subset of both disciplines.

    Yeah, you can become a web developer with a degree in psych. You could also become a truck driver or a plumber. I was merely trying to present two possibilities where a person is using their degree to enter a career path that seems to stem somewhat organically from the discipline itself.

    Now median salary is $39k, that's great. But that's a national median. The higher salaries tend to be found in areas with a higher cost of living. Still, not a bad job. But this isn't a Yahoo! Jobs article where we randomly collect jobs and median salaries. If we have experience in a field we could and should look at some of the details of that job. Personally, I liked it. It caused me to burn out of my BA program before I ever burned out of the work itself. And it's something I wonder if I'd ever be able to return to (perhaps if I enter a semi-retirement, post-HR/pre-yelling at kids to get off my lawn sort of phase). For me, of course, the problem was largely the opposite of what we've presented; I wasn't very interested in the field of psychology but I was more interested in counseling those with addictions.

    Anyway, I'm not arguing with any of your points. I just thought it worthwhile to tease out some of these generalities.

    If you're unsure what you want to do for a living but feel like a degree will help you get there then I recommend knocking out a degree in whatever major is most interesting to you. If that's psych, go for it. It's easier to try to wiggle into a job with a general degree requirement than it is to try to convince an employer that your lack of a degree is something they should make an exception for. I believe this with the caveat that you shouldn't go into substantial debt earning a degree in "stuff" particularly if you are unsure if it will actually help you to further your career.
     
  16. sanantone

    sanantone Well-Known Member

    I brought up UX/UI design because there are jobs in that field that specifically state a preference for degrees in psychology or a similar field. So, it is nothing like transitioning from psychology to truck driving or plumbing.

    I live in a state with a low cost of living. Here, fully-licensed substance abuse counselors can expect to make $30k-40k.
     
  17. Annieways

    Annieways New Member

    Thank you all for your informative feedback! It's been a great deal of help for me learning about your own experiences and knowledge.

    I scratched out substance abuse counselor long time ago, like Neuhaus said it's two different worlds, reading about it and being interested in it, and actually working with patients. I think it's a wonderful career, I just don't have it in my gut to take on that position. I wouldn't mind doing treatment without having to be the one dealing directly with the patient all the time, especially substance abuse which I feel you need to have a strong character for.

    When I was in high school I thought I'd make it in the psychology field, but the older I got I realized how much I need to work on my social/communication skills, which actually drift me apart from many things, because most fields require those qualifications. If anything, I think I would prefer working with children. School counseling or special ed maybe. My ideal major would have been Art Therapy, I really enjoyed discovering what it was about, and the idea of having art and psychology combined was music to my ears. But, that's also a relatively new field and a masters degree to be certified, like many others. The good thing about psychology is that it is very broad. I was evaluating all the programs at my school and even a dental hygienist needs to take at least one psychology class.

    Honestly, I still haven't decided what I want to major in or which career path. So far, in my mind I have Education, Psychology or something along Human/social services..oh and property management/real estate industry, what a load of different fields..
    It does help to know the differences between the A.A and A.A.S, having 26 earned creds in general courses also allows me to work my way around it and still have different options available. I guess the main reason I am stressing this all is because money is tight, and time is running by too fast. I am in my mid 20's now, married, would like to buy a home someday and have children.

    Classes at my college start soon, I am just afraid of having to take a class without knowing which path/major I want and then when I do finally decide what if that class I took is not part of the program. What if I take it, spend $165 PER credit hour..that's nearly $400~ on one single class. Anyways, maybe I have to stop thinking like that in the long run, I am going to have to spend money if I want to earn a degree, for now maybe I'll just take one class such as Psychology 101, which is general and may fit in almost any degree, and if not perhaps it can be considered an elective. I just don't want to continue letting time pass by, I have a full time job worked here for over 5 years and it's pretty flexible, it actually allows me to have time to study, so I want to take advantage of that.


    Why is it so hard to decide, I wish I knew my 'nitch', wish I was just able to complete something short but that may still be rewarding, it being an AA, A.A.S degree, or even pursue my bachelors, even if it leads me to an entry level position, I wouldn't mind as long as I am able to work my way up through out time. I just want to have a back up plan because my current job as great as it may be, it is no career. I just want a degree to open doors for me in the future, have daytime hour schedule where I can still have time to come home to my family, earn a decent pay nothing that's going to make me rich but at least help me pay off a mortgage, if there are some benefits along with it great and something that's overall not too miserable.. is that so hard,lol?
     
  18. Neuhaus

    Neuhaus Well-Known Member

    I'm not disagreeing with you, sanantone. So, thanks for the info.

    That's great for you.

    That still does not mean that using a national median is not without its limits.
     
  19. sanantone

    sanantone Well-Known Member

    But, it provides a better gauge than one person's anecdotal experience in one place from years ago. You can also go on the BLS website and find median salaries by state for each occupation.
     
  20. Neuhaus

    Neuhaus Well-Known Member

    You also provided your limited anecdotal evidence (albeit, from present day). I gave a call to the center where I previously worked, a little HR-to-HR chat, the going rate for a counselor is $13/hr.

    So, now the OP and everyone here, knows what the job market looks like in Scranton, Pennsylvania and within your own specific limited market.

    While it's fine to be of the opinion that $30-40k is "good" for a job that doesn't require a degree, there are a few problems with us continuing down this rabbit hole:

    1. This isn't a discussion about the merits of becoming an addictions counselor. This is a discussion about a college degree. So while $30k/yr (or, $14.42/hr if you're full-time) might be "OK" for a job that does not require a college degree, it then seems odd to promote that as something you "can do" with a BA in Psych, since you don't need the BA in Psych to do the job.

    It's like saying "Oh boy, with a degree in liberal arts, you can work in a factory!" Yeah, you can. You can also work in the factory without the degree in liberal arts.

    Yeah, the degree might help you get a job as an addictions counselor. It could also help you get a job as a mental health technician in a psychiatric hospital, though such a degree is seldom a requirement. Incidentally, that job also pays over $30k.

    So, sanantone, if our goal is "jobs that don't require degrees and pay over $30k" we have tons of options. I'm sorry that you feel the need to get oddly defensive about someone sharing the realities of a job you casually threw out there on the basis of the OP simply stating "I think I want to study psychology."


    As with any median salary, if the median salary is hovering in the low 40's for a locale, that generally means that you're going to find salaries all the way down into the high 20's.

    People misuse median salaries frequently. I've had people walk in with salary.com reports telling me they expected me to "match" the median. Some employers are over the number, some employers are under the number. Some by a lot in either directions. And if you live in Western New York and are being paid below the statewide median that doesn't actually help you earn more money, particularly since the nearly $60k wages in NYC are likely impacting that number (I'd wager there are more drug and alcohol treatment centers in the Greater NYC area than in Jamestown, NY which would mean there is a greater concentration of people making more money which would, in turn, impact the statewide average).

    But, as was referenced by John Bear in another thread not too long ago, that's a bit like the statistician who couldn't swim drowning in the lake that only averaged 3 feet.

    The irony, of course, is that the last time you and I locked horns it was because you were strenuously arguing for the use of ROI in choosing a degree program. Here, you're basically saying "Here are some great ideas that will ensure you will receive basically zero ROI!"

    Personally, when looking at salary data, I like looking at the lowest and highest quartile to see a range of salaries. While it is certainly limited as well, it is generally a better indicator of where employers in a given geography are paying. A median hourly wage of $15/hr is great. But in a town of two employers where one pays $10 and one pays $20, that $15/hr is simply a theoretical construct. Presenting ranges when negotiating your salary is also generally a better way to go about it.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 20, 2016

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