Professors with diploma mill degrees

Discussion in 'Accreditation Discussions (RA, DETC, state approva' started by Neuhaus, Feb 20, 2015.

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  1. AuditGuy

    AuditGuy Member

    "With respect, this was designed as a general discussion about how individuals would react to a professor with an unaccredited degree. I'm not sure why you are trying to tell me, and my company, how we need to conduct our business based upon your cursory understanding of our policies. "

    LOL, nice try, the initial post was that, but then there are 4 pages where you describe your procedural issues, frustrations, and general anger.

    "neither AuditGuy nor anyone on this board, has any direct experience with my company."

    Well, you've been able to succinctly point out some pretty basic problems and directly ask for some assistance with your issues. Sorry if you are thin skinned and offended that people are sharing their experiences. Take credit for the ones you like, ignore the rest. Go back and you'll see that my comments are all based on consulting work in this area and what WE do (for example, OUR Accounting Managers admit they aren't familiar with the CPA requirements for dozens of states they see as well as Canadian CPA's , not yours. And WE believe "eligible" does not belong in a job requirement).

    So let me wrap up with some general discussions I've had with various HR directors specifically about academic verification.

    HR: Our company doesn't have a policy on degree accreditation.

    Me: Get one approved, now. Put it on your website and application forms, get upper management buy in. Here are some examples of bad things that can happen...

    HR: Ouch, we'll get on it. Should the policy require regional accreditation?

    Me: I can give you my opinion, but I'm agnostic to what the actual details are, regional, national, AACSB, whatever works best for you. The key is that you have a well thought out standard to compare applicants to. It may vary somewhat by job. Review the policy at least annually with upper management for changes and ongoing education of the importance. Circulate to new managers as part of the orientation packet. Without it, you only have an ad-hoc process and will potentially have a debate on every unfamiliar degree with every different manager and eventually clog up your Personnel Committee.

    HR: We outsource our degree verification and transcript gathering, but it does not check accreditation because we haven't defined what we require.

    Me: So, your process looks something like this?

    1. Applicant needs verification
    2. Transmit to a 3rd party
    3. They contact the "university" or University and request transcripts.
    4. Wait a week or so
    5. Receive them back, with no accreditation check.

    HR: Yep

    Me: Well, you just wasted 10 days, money, and you're using the TLAR method to catch if it is an invalid degree without an accreditation check. You need to consider the probability that you have a "time bomb" somewhere. Sign up for desktop verification, take 10 days out of your throughput, save money, and validate accreditation at the same time. If you still want to outource it, the 3rd party can still run the checks and auto-email the report to a rep. Since it takes 2 minutes each, you should also consider having your admin assistant runs the reports during down time and emails the rep with the report. The last company we worked with did this and even with high volume, and have half-day turnaround.

    HR: Thanks, you're the best for taking personal time to give us a free consult!

    Me: No problem, PM Auditguy if you have any additional issues you'd like to discuss.
     
  2. Neuhaus

    Neuhaus Well-Known Member

    Absolutely false. I never asked for "assistance with my issues." When someone pointed out that the entire "fake degree" problem as an "HR issue" I disagreed based upon the structure and scope of my HR department. I pointed out that our degree validation service did not cover accreditation. At no point did I ask for people to come over and tell me how my company should run.

    For starters, while I appreciate the occasional suggestion for the sake of discussion, I'm not the Vice President or Director of HR. Second, my shop, while certainly not perfect, is not a one-man shop and runs very efficiently, for the most part.


    That's interesting, because earlier in this thread you said:

    Which is hardly "agnostic." You indicated that, in your shop, you were trying to contend with multiple state requirements. Not an issue for me. I made that quite clear.

    Yeah, the problem is that, again, I never solicited "advice" on how to improve my company. If you think that's what I wrote, you need to re-read it objectively (i.e. with the mindset that you aren't going to try to lure me into what sounds like a hook for hiring you as a consultant).

    I disputed that someone else said that degree validation is a purely HR function. Clearly, you think it is. And in a variety of company settings I would agree. But there are a large number of companies that place the onus on the hiring manager. And that isn't such a bad idea.

    I'm sorry you think that people rejecting your unsolicited advice is being "thin-skinned" but most of what you have posted here is exactly the same sort of HR double-talk that makes people hate HR. Your suggestions, above all, involve automating processes that don't need to be automated (except, perhaps, in the largest of companies) and divorcing human resources from humanity to where people are just funneled through endless software filters and third party vendors.

    And I'm glad all of that is working for you and your company. But I would never want to work at such a place.
     
  3. AuditGuy

    AuditGuy Member

    >>>Absolutely false. I never asked for "assistance with my issues.

    >>> Neuahaus asked: "What do I do now if we hire a janitor who, years into his job, claims an associates degree from Breyer State?"

    >>>Neuhaus asked: "But let's say HR develops a policy it can enforce. What policy would that be exactly? "

    Of all the issues you are asking for help on, that one sticks out most as a pretty basic question. Don't solicit advice if you don't want to hear recommendations.

    >>> Your suggestions, above all, involve automating processes that don't need to be automated.

    If you want to be ineffective and wait for a 3rd party to shuffle transcripts without validating accreditation, no need to automate any process at all. That's the only thing I am recommending automating.

    >>>Neuhaus said: When I get a background check back on someone with an unaccredited degree the final report almost invariably says "Degree Verified." Right, because Almeda verifies the degree. It's part of the service. The background company should be doing this accreditation vetting. To date, I have yet to find a vendor willing to offer this service.

    Pssst, I know you have been looking for this, so I put in a previous post with some links to THE vendor for you. Look back or use the Google to find "National Student Clearinghouse"

    >>>Do or Do Not, there is no eligible. Which is hardly "agnostic." You indicated that, in your shop, you were trying to contend with multiple state requirements. Not an issue for me. I made that quite clear.

    You're trolling if you are pretending to misread it that badly. Agnostic to the level of accreditation required in degrees, for those companies who are far enough along to have a policy. You see, degrees and licenses are two different things. Licenses, we take the approach (with the full support of managers) that you either you have it or you don't (there is no eligible). Like I said CPA required for Manager and above, since they will be the ones representing and need to be CPA's. Staff Accountants, even long termed ones, CPA not required.

    "divorcing human resources from humanity to where people are just funneled through endless software filters and third party vendors. "

    Exactly the opposite, we improved time wasting activities like your 3rd party vendor transcript shuffle into more personal time with managers to go over candidates. We don't filter out QUALIFIED candidates, that onus is on the manager to ultimately decide.

    >>> but most of what you have posted here is exactly the same sort of HR double-talk that makes people hate HR

    I don't work in HR, but OUR HR is not hated. I've just helped several of them through the years fix alot of the issues you are soliciting advice on. Feel free to point out any "double talk" and I'd be glad to answer any more questions you have.
     

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