Seeking Degree to Fit My Needs

Discussion in 'Business and MBA degrees' started by isaacabrams, Feb 18, 2015.

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  1. isaacabrams

    isaacabrams New Member

    Hello Everyone,

    I'm seeking an online EdD, DBA or PhD in either education or business. The program I'm seeking needs to have rolling admissions, no testing requirement (GRE, GMAT, MAT, etc.), be regionally accredited and provide TA [or similar] opportunities.

    I hold an MBA from an ACBSP accredited locally known university. I hold an MeD from a NCATE accredited nationally known university. I have presented at conferences and publications are forthcoming. I'm told I need the doctorate and teaching experience to be hired as a professor.

    Ideally I'd prefer the online program be from a recognizable institution where bias wouldn't come into play. In other words in my area deans have expressed the biased opinion that degrees from Capella, Walden, Argosy, etc. "aren't real degrees." I'd like to veer on the side of caution here, so the more known the institution, the better. I'm hoping suggestions can be made for the 48 continental states. I've seen people mention online degrees abroad, but have seen in practice they're not accepted either.

    I'm hoping it's realized these are some biased opinions of others and not my own. Any suggestions would be appreciated.
     
  2. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator

  3. isaacabrams

    isaacabrams New Member

    Thank you for providing me this link. I had read through this thread prior to joining and read through it again before responding.

    Unfortunately, despite the efforts of many of the board members to contribute to it, it is not helpful to me.

    It references many of the programs I must avoid because they are not respected in academia like Capella, Walden, Argosy, Northcentral, etc. Other programs listed aren't even accredited by NCATE, ACBSP, etc. that a dean wants to see, but rather by DETC.

    There are some programs I saw listed like those at Old Dominion and the University of Florida I would highly recommend to those on this board, but they will not waive the GRE requirement, which is one of my needs.

    The other issue, is that some of the information isn't accurate or may be outdated. For example, the DBA at UW-W isn't offered through distance learning. It is offered through an executive format like the DPS at Pace University where you are required to be on campus an excessive amount such that the program isn't via online or distance education means.

    In my experience there seems to be a tell to universities regarding their programs, as the websites like Argosy, Walden, etc. all look the same, where there is an emphasis placed on insisting you contact them for information, rather than actually providing the information you seek.
     
  4. major56

    major56 Active Member

  5. Neuhaus

    Neuhaus Well-Known Member

  6. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    University of the Cumberlands has a EdD/PhD program that's regionally accredited, low cost, and can be done entirely by distance. It's worth noting that they're a conservative Baptist university, although religious matters do not appear in the coursework. A number of us on this forum are in the program and have been satisfied by their good customer service and academics. It includes an 18 credit specialization that can be entirely transferred in, so if you like you can earn those credits in business and be qualified to teach business at the graduate level.
     
  7. major56

    major56 Active Member

    Australia university option:

    Doctor of Business Administration - University of Southern Queensland

    Distance /Online (International Student): $15,300 (USD). Based on AUD /USD current currency exchange rate.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 20, 2015
  8. isaacabrams

    isaacabrams New Member

    major56,

    Thank you for your replies. Unfortunately, I need a program in the continental US, as there is a bias against overseas degree programs, unless you grew up in that area.
     
  9. isaacabrams

    isaacabrams New Member

    Thank you for replying. I've looked into these programs. They have extensive in person residencies.
     
  10. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    Well, I just took a look at your other requirements, and I think that your requirement for an assistantship reduces the number of possibilities to zero anyway. If you're doing it by distance, you're paying for it.

    As for wanting to avoid standardized tests, I know they're inconvenient, but I've always wondered why they're a deal breaker for so many people when the inconvenience of taking one is trivial compared with the inconvenience of actually doing a degree program.
     
  11. Warpnow

    Warpnow Member

    The school you want doesn't exist, and if it did, it would be unlikely to stay how you want it.

    Online with TA or other type of work study just doesn't happen for the same reason very few jobs will hire someone across the world without ever meeting them in person.

    Recognized institutions are competitive-- they require entrance exams. They get so many applicants they need to find a way to reduce them quickly and easily-- entrance exams.

    No residency/exam PHD sounds like a research PHD-- popular in European schools. So most if not all of them will not be in the US.

    Degrees that are convenient are given out more-- creates the illusion the degree isn't as good. Working hard and sacrificing for the degree makes you part of a smaller group, and people who do it don't like seeing people who don't succeed-- hence the "not a real school" mentality.
     
  12. Shawn Ambrose

    Shawn Ambrose New Member

    Here's a few questions that I have after reading the thread:

    1. Education or business is overly broad. Do you have a specific interest? If you want to teach in a business school, you can do it with an EdD in Leadership. However, if you have a DBA/PhD in a specific subject (say accounting), more opportunities will be there.

    2. Where do you want to teach? Community college, small private, small state U, R1? ACCSB? ACBSP? I ask this question because if the goal is to teach at an AACSB institution, then the doctorate should be from an R1 AACSB institution. Anything other than that, and the chances of obtaining a teaching position at that type of institution decreased exponentially. However, if you are looking a a small private or a community college - a degree from a for-profit can work for you. You've already presented and you are working on publications. I'm a chair/Assistant Professor at a small private college, and my degree from Capella was not an issue. (Note - I had teaching experience at a community college while working on a PhD from Capella).

    3. If you are looking for an alternative for the "for-profits," check out Anderson University in Indiana. One of my colleagues is collecting data for his dissertation and raves about the program. It's online with residency. He will earn a DBA in Finance - probably in Fall 2015.

    Having said all of that, I go back to question 1 - what specific field do you want to teach in? Good luck!
     
  13. edowave

    edowave Active Member

    By not taking the GRE, you basically eliminated yourself from all doctorate programs except the ones you said that "aren't real degrees" or that are "not accepted either."
     
  14. isaacabrams

    isaacabrams New Member

    Thank you SteveFoerster. Dr. Barry Vann has told me this program wouldn't help me in preparing for a role as a professor, but might give some insight into higher education politics. Is it possible for those on this board to message me about their experiences within this program?
     
  15. isaacabrams

    isaacabrams New Member

    SteveFoesrster,

    I've seen programs that offer this, but there were issues with them. One DBA program didn't accept financial aid, which was a red flag and the PhD program in education I found that did this wasn't accredited. I'm sure they exist, it is just a matter of finding them.

    For your commentary on standardized tests I cannot speak for others. For me I've taken many tests for academic reasons that matter for five minutes and never matter again. Such is the nature of these tests I guess. There are too many programs that will waive this requirement if you meet other criteria or don't even have them at all. So it isn't so much of a deal breaker, as it is that there are too many programs that don't require it to inquire about programs that do.
     
  16. isaacabrams

    isaacabrams New Member

    Warpnow,

    Thank you for your reply. Such programs do exist, as I've seen them. One DBA program had this, but didn't accept financial aid and a PhD in education program had this but wasn't accredited.

    I think you have a misinformed opinion of how entrance criteria is put together. Rarely are these exams ever the main reason for acceptance into a program and are rarely the main reason for rejection in a program. I can tell you personally many admissions officers have informed me the only reason they even require a testing criteria is for statistical purposes. You're implying that they determine who is admitted into a program which is inaccurate.

    At no point did I say "no residency." I just don't want to have a program like the hybrid program at Michigan State where you spend two weeks on campus every summer. Something like the norm of 1 week or 1 weekend per year is perfectly fine.

    I think you are also expressing an inaccurate assessment of "giving out degrees." Doctoral programs only accept x number of students per cohort regardless of the method in which they are presented. It also has a lot to do with what you're using the degree for. For example, a lot of people here have expressed pursuing degrees at Walden and other places where for whatever reason a lot of people perceive as diploma mills, despite them not actually being. They don't seem to have the intent of using them in the manner I've described, if they use them at all. What I mean by "not a real school" is that people in hiring positions in my area believe if you're going to get an online degree you should get it from an established B&M school. For example, Va Tech offers a lot of online degrees. They would be considered infinitely better than the same degree from Walden or Capella, even if you were required to complete more coursework at Walden or Capella. To every dean I've ever spoken to they have a belief that a degree is a degree, but the school matters. So a college like University of Albany would be perceived far better than Capella University because of this mentality. The cohort groups would be exactly the same in either setting in most cases.
     
  17. isaacabrams

    isaacabrams New Member

    Shawn Ambrose,

    I will attempt to answer your questions as you've presented them.

    1. For education I'd prefer to pursue a degree in Curriculum and Instruction or Business Education, but Business Education doesn't seem to exist at the doctoral level any more, aside from a few EdS programs, which aren't accepted as doctorates for my purposes. For business I'd prefer to pursue a degree in marketing or finance, but have seen that one in the general area of business administration isn't a problem to anyone.

    2. I'm looking to teach at a college/university where there is an emphasis placed on teaching rather than research. In other words, not a place like Princeton. Accreditation depends on where I get my degree. For example, if I were to obtain an IACBE accredited doctorate in business that would severely limit my opportunities, but for these purposes lets say an ACBSP, as that is what many of the business schools in my area hold despite a number of them being AACSB candidates. I've seen things entirely different than what you are describing. For example, an institution like Wilmington University hires a heavy amount of their graduates, which is uncommon every where else. The county colleges by me to be blunt next to no one even has a doctorate. I'd avoid such opportunities as by me the thinking is that it is actually better to adjunct at a community college than to have worked their full time, as there is limited opportunities in community colleges by me, they rely heavily no adjuncts and might have three or four full time faculty.

    I'll be blunt. From what every person of authority has ever told me the fact that you had that teaching experience is the reason you were hired. You could have received your PhD anywhere. That is the position I'm in, where they've stressed "just get a doctorate, but you need that experience." Also, I Googled you for argument sake. I have a feeling the fact you held an MBA from a well established university in addition to your teaching experience at the college level had more to do with your hiring. If you were to apply to work at a more well known university in your state the Capella degree would be an issue. Not disparaging the university you work at, it just isn't well known.

    If I were to land an adjunct position then I'd be in the same position where I could have more possibilities open to me and receive the degree at various places that I cannot consider now. Also bear in mind that the deans' bias comes into play too. If every dean in my area claims these types of schools won't get me hired, why would I risk it?

    3. I've look at the program you advised me to view. It isn't offered via online means. It specifically references this on the website.
     
  18. isaacabrams

    isaacabrams New Member

    edowave,

    Thank you for your comment. Unfortunately, it isn't even remotely accurate. At the University of Southern California's Rossier School of Education, an extremely well respected dept. around the country, offers an EdD program where you can either take the GRE or GMAT or spend thirty minutes writing a response paper on a topic they provide. This is the growing norm in academia where the admissions criteria is "testing requirement or........." For example, a lot of business program I've looked into will completely waive the testing requirement due to my management experiences.

    I've found hundreds of programs that don't even require these tests too. You seem to have limited knowledge of programs. I've specifically noted that there is a bias in my area against the likes of Walden, Capella and Argosy. The only exception seems to be Nova, but those hired with doctorates from there are hired due to specific experiences as school [K-12] administrators.
     
  19. Warpnow

    Warpnow Member

    Everyone is telling you the same thing-- patronizing them by telling them how little they know compared to you is amusing but pointless. The truth is your requirements are very confining and its very unlikely you'll find a school that meets all of them. I hope you do, but doubt it.
     
  20. Shawn Ambrose

    Shawn Ambrose New Member

    " For education I'd prefer to pursue a degree in Curriculum and Instruction or Business Education , but Business Education doesn't seem to exist at the doctoral level any more, aside from a few EdS programs, which aren't accepted as doctorates for my purposes. For business I'd prefer to pursue a degree in marketing or finance, but have seen that one in the general area of business administration isn't a problem to anyone.

    1. If it were me - I would lock down on what subject matter I was going to earn the doctorate in. You will be spending a great deal of time on this topic, and for 99.9% of the population, you'll only get one shot at it. IMHO - you need to decide that first. If finance is your area of expertise, the field is wide open.

    I'm looking to teach at a college/university where there is an emphasis placed on teaching rather than research. In other words, not a place like Princeton. Accreditation depends on where I get my degree. For example, if I were to obtain an IACBE accredited doctorate in business that would severely limit my opportunities, but for these purposes lets say an ACBSP, as that is what many of the business schools in my area hold despite a number of them being AACSB candidates. I've seen things entirely different than what you are describing. For example, an institution like Wilmington University hires a heavy amount of their graduates, which is uncommon every where else. The county colleges by me to be blunt next to no one even has a doctorate. I'd avoid such opportunities as by me the thinking is that it is actually better to adjunct at a community college than to have worked their full time, as there is limited opportunities in community colleges by me, they rely heavily no adjuncts and might have three or four full time faculty

    If you can get a full-time job at a community college - by all means go for it. By your own admission, you need experience. While serving as an adjunct will give you teaching experience - a full-time position gives you the potential for a lot more. Later in your response to me, you stated:

    You could have received your PhD anywhere...Also, I Googled you for argument sake. I have a feeling the fact you held an MBA from a well established university in addition to your teaching experience at the college level had more to do with your hiring. If you were to apply to work at a more well known university in your state the Capella degree would be an issue. Not disparaging the university you work at, it just isn't well known.

    To a large extent, you are correct. My Ph.D could have come from any accredited university, because at many small private colleges - the doctoral degree is "check the box." Before I came to the University of Saint Francis, I spent six wonderful years at LCO Community College. In addition to teaching a full load of classes I:

    Served as Chair of the Business and Technology Department
    Advised Business and General Studies students
    Developed a General Studies degree catered to students who stopped-out and military veterans
    Was Interim Chief Academic Officer for three months
    Chaired the college curriculum/assessment committee
    Wrote the first draft of the Institutional Self-Study for the Comprehensive Visit from the Higher Learning Commission
    Developed training for faculty on how to effectively use Interactive Television (we had remote outreach sites)... etc.

    If you were to obtain a full-time teaching position at a community college, you would have similar opportunities. Once you had the doctorate in hand, you would be a far better candidate.

    The other piece of advice is - if you want a full-time gig, you better be prepared to move. I moved my family from Wyoming to Wisconsin, then from Wisconsin to Indiana.

    Good luck!

    Shawn
     

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