Obama to make 2 years of community college education free ?

i can't tell if this is a joke or real

:headache::headache::headache:

 

Total joke. I can't understand why some think that the solution to fix a problem that the federal government throws billions of dollars at every year (piss-poor K-12 education) is to throw additional billions of dollars at it in years 13 and 14?

 

I apologize if I sound 'noob' about this K-12 issue, but can you (or anyone) explain what seems to be the 'problem' ?

I've read online, very generic google search. some things that came up were,

1. K-12 funding in some states cut back, lack of teachers
2. lack of educators, class sizes to big
3. Drop out rates ?

Wouldn't an input of $$ be useful to employ more skilled people in the education sector to teach the kids etc etc ? Or is everyone advocating a whole restructuring of the education system itself because of it's administrative flaws ? Or is it because the system is not 'producing' talented kids ?

:headache::headache::headache:

 

Amen. I've been preaching this too. I believe the fundamental philosophy behind student loans was good and was well-intend. But human nature being what it is states just took advantage of that fact as an excuse to pass on costs to the federal government and to the students themselves.

If we are going to make CC free let's just make all education free. At least that way we can then begin to hold people accountable without worrying about burden shifting.

 

There are two fundamental problems with education today. The first is that despite the fact that the world and the country has grown more interconnected education for the most part remains a local affair. As a consequence education is basically a split responsibility between state and local politicians and federal government. The federal government tries to set standards (Common Core being only the latest attempt) and provides lots of money but in reality states do whatever the hell they want. This leads to all sorts of perverse incentives and burden shifting without any accountability.

The second major problem is that there is profound disagreement about the propose of education. Is the purpose of education to prepare students for careers? To make them educated citizens for democracy? For their own cultural and human development? To support national progress? All of the above? None of the above? The result is that educators (teachers) often suffer a maelstrom of conflicting demands. Parents who want X, Administrators and school boards who want Y, the federal government who says Z. The result is--in what is becoming a buzzword for me--a system weak from disorientation.

One of the reason I don't buy into paying teachers more, not yet anyway, is because of this disorientation. We need to figure out what we want form education and who is accountable for deliverables before we can set people to the task. What we have today is less an educational system than a social welfare system under the guise of an educational system.

 

I think that the idea of free education at the collegiate level is foolish. We need to get the government from intruding on an individual decision making and consumer spending.

I also concur with you that the government needs to get out of the funding business when it comes to student loans and financial aid. This way it would help bring down the amount of over saturation when it comes to student enrollment. This student population has skyrocketed and that has made it a necessity that everyone needs a college education and that's a farce.

I also really think that colleges and universities need to up tuition across the board that make this even more competitive for student enrollment. There is a huge cost burden to colleges and universities and they need to be compensated better.

We need to rethink our priorities when it comes to higher education.

 

I agree. We need to look at the fundamental reason for over-enrollment. The reason that student loans were put into place in the first place was on the theory of access. The poor shouldn't be left behind simply because they did not have the patrimony of the rich. Student loans in this sense were meant to be an investment in human capital.

What cultural experience has shown is that the trillions of dollars offered by the government represents a moral hazard. Using student loans for access makes sense but only if the educational institutions hold the line on what educators call "the ability to benefit"--admissions standards with some teeth, teachers who are willing to flunk students, etc. History has shown that homogeneous pile of money out there left everyone licking their chops and instead of holding the line educational institutions went wild because no one was minding the store. Degrees proliferated without end, tuition going through the roof, and tons of students who have degrees but can't find jobs or are now working in jobs that don't require degrees--and yet still have the debt.

The student loan money solved a problem but with no meaningful checks it created a monster.

 

The Obama proposal strikes me as a solution in search of a problem.

Low income people already get to go to community college for free. Pell Grants are automatic if HH Income is below $25k, and often available above that threshold.

At my local community college, in-state tuition is a whopping $72 per credit hour. That's $864 per semester for a full-time student (12 hours). Add in administrative fees and textbooks and you are looking at under $1,400 per semester.

Between low costs due to state and federal subsidies, and the availability of financial aid, I don't think anyone who wants to go to community college is staying away because of the cost.

 

...free.... because people love to pay more taxes, because our gvt has an amazing track record administering free k-12 education, and because cost is a barrier to admission at community colleges across the country. <heavy sarcasm>

 

ding ding ding ding ding....we have a winner!

 

I couldn't have said it better...

 

In my experience, having community college "paid for" isn't incredibly new. I suspect this will be the norm in the next 20 years.

This is the type of thing I'm seeing at several places across the state I live in:

WTMC

JC/LISD Academy | FAQ

BW Middle College

Information / Welcome

These exist elsewhere; I'm just most familiar with what's near me.

 

Don't forget that the cost of books can often exceed the costs of tuition.

-Matt

 

This is why I propose that tuition particularly at community college should be raised substantially so that we can deal with the massive student population. We have too many students going to college and not all of them really want to go. Many do because of pressure from their parents, etc.

Our government thinks that by putting everyone in a "one size fits all," approach that somehow that is the magic solution. We can't give everyone free stuff and someone has to pay for it.

 

You probably could have. I just realized my last several posts have been full of sarcasm and spite. What has this board done to my calm, cool, and collected demeanor?

 

This whole subject brings out the snarky in me.

 

My thoughts

I think some folks are looking way into the future on this one and trying to anticipate multiple variables that will no doubt pop up. But like others here I think what this does is start what I hope to be a healthy conversation about education/training and employment. I don't think anything will pass with the current make-up all it does for now is start the process of thinking and looking at different ideas nothing more.

 

You're right, it's the topic. Who said it a few posts earlier, that this was a solution looking for a problem? I really agree, because in all honesty, the REAL issue with college cost is in earning the 300/400 level courses. There are already 100 bridges to an inexpensive (and sometimes free) AA degree. Building more of these bridges, imo, shows a lack of understanding of the problem. The community college is already working pretty well, costs a fair amount, allows alternative credit options, is expanding to online, offers both applied technology and arts/sciences, has highschool to college articulations as well as CC to 4 year college articulations that both GUARANTEE transfer, offers dual enrollment for teens, can teach anyone in the community to read /write / earn a GED, offers continuing education as well as adult education. I mean seriously, what else could you ask for? But seek a 4-year degree and things just got expensive and restrictive. Earning upper level credit, using distance learning, dorm costs, and tuition costs are HUGE barriers at that level.

In my opinion, the 2 easiest degrees to earn are an AA and a masters. It's that damn BA that filters people out..

One thing- if this happens- is that I think it might drive down some costs of the certificate and AA degrees offered through the for-profit schools. I don't know how much, because even a $5000 CC degree costs you $20000 at the Technical College of Fantasy down the street.... and people pay it.

 

Like many of you here I also paid for my education. And as an immigrant it was extremely difficult. However, free college education do have some merits if it is look upon as an investment and not as an expense. I was told that in the USA every for every $1 spent on kindergarten $7 is eventually return to the economy.
Like many of you, retirement is very close on the horizon. My preference is to have these young people working in good jobs to fund my retirement through paying taxes instead of being on welfare. I think we have already concluded on DI that the USA has the best education system in the world. No need to second guess yourself because of politics. Because if the system is a bad as some have argued, then that is more reasons why education should be free. Also it is weird to argue that AA is almost free because of all the government programs, so that a reason why it should not be free.
I am actually looking out for my self interest - free education has the potential of providing a higher return on the investment to me that if I had to save the forgone taxes and invest for my retirement. One of the major problems with retirement income is that there are too few workers supporting too many retirees.