Obama to make 2 years of community college education free ?

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by nyvrem, Jan 9, 2015.

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  1. nyvrem

    nyvrem Active Member

    Obama to propose free community college

    If this works for online courses at the CC, it'll be amazing.

    :notworthy::notworthy::notworthy:
     
  2. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator

    "...free for anybody who's willing to work for it." To me it sounds like the beginnings of a national service program like Americorps. As with everything, the devil is in the details. AFAIC it could be a very good thing.
     
  3. Maniac Craniac

    Maniac Craniac Moderator Staff Member

    I'd be all for it if already having a degree doesn't disqualify one from taking advantage. I highly doubt that would be the case though, but a guy can dream of filling his walls with diplomas he doesn't really need, can't he? :sad:
     
  4. novadar

    novadar Member

    Well, there are legions here on DI ready to be the Adjunct Instructors, online or on-campus! Go Upper Mid-Central Western Community College!
     
  5. TEKMAN

    TEKMAN Semper Fi!

    I think the U.S Air Force is the only military branch has Community College for Enlisted members. Is the Air Force any better than other branches in term of Enlisted member high education?

    I already see the problems, more folks attend colleges to avoid works.
     
  6. PilgrimPastor

    PilgrimPastor New Member

    AMEN! I have more degrees than a thermostat, through the doctorate, and currently doing an M.Ed. BUT I feel like such a slub for having no AA... it's a running joke with a few friends who have an Associate... lol. I'd be ALL in on an A.A. for free! :arms:
     
  7. sanantone

    sanantone Well-Known Member

    I wonder what's the percentage of community college students receiving Pell Grants. I would bet it's high. This could mostly just be cutting out the middle man.

    I would think there would be restrictions for those who already have degrees, but adults who need retraining in more marketable fields might also be targeted. If there is going to be no limit on the number of degrees, then my goal is to be like this guy.
    Aric W Hall  -  Resume  -  Education  -  -  - 
     
  8. Phdtobe

    Phdtobe Well-Known Member

    Education is transformational. AA for free is an excellent idea. I hope it gets the support. The cost of textbooks is another issue. Maybe only open source textbooks in the AA programs. The USA will benefit greatly from this policy.
     
  9. novadar

    novadar Member

    It's dizzying trying to figure out the order in which he completed these.

    Whoa, that Fort Hays State University diploma is cool! I have never seen a diploma like that with a transitional background.


    [​IMG]
     
  10. novadar

    novadar Member

  11. dfreybur

    dfreybur New Member

    A century ago the idea of high school paid for by taxes was new and controversial. Decades before that even elementary school paid for by taxes was new and controversial.

    The Associates degree program has been successful beyond the wildest dreams of those who bootstrapped the system half a century ago, but it's gotten to the point many skilled labor jobs now require one. It's natural to discuss making it paid for by taxes the same as high school.

    For myself I looked up how to get a CPA and I could apply the GE parts of my BSL to an associates in accounting to complete the requirements. Someone without a bachelors would need to follow a different trajectory but I could get a CPA doing only lower division courses and end up with an ABA thrown in. When I looked closely into this option the jobs it would qualify me for are all 100% travel for several years so I passed.
     
  12. me again

    me again Well-Known Member

    California used to offer "free" Associate degrees at community colleges until:

    • First, the taxpayers eventually figured out that "free" community colleges were not free after all because taxes rose to pay for it e.g. working taxpayers paid for ALL of it.
      .
    • Second, California almost went bankrupt. They still might.
      .
    • Third, gold is not mined from trees. Or is it?

    The Constitution of the U.S. requires the federal government to protect the borders of the nation and to make interstate commerce equitable. The federal government is exceeding the intended scope of of the Constitution by enforcing Obamacare and now by a proposal to offer community college for free throughout the nation. Hopefully, the Republicans will dismantle Obama care (piece by legislative piece) and will then dismiss Obama's "free" community college idea. Free is a lie.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 9, 2015
  13. CalDog

    CalDog New Member

    Actually, the current "poster child" for free community college is Tennessee, not California. Tennessee announced a free community college program earlier this year. That's why Obama is making the formal announcement of his program in Tennessee. California community colleges are not free (although tuition is relatively low).

    Actually, the current "poster child" for states facing potential bankruptcy is Kansas, not California. California currently has one of the best-looking state budgets in the US. For example, here's what Bloomberg Business News said about it yesterday:

    If you want to criticize state governments that offer free community college, or states with troubling budget deficits, that's your right. But why pick on California, which currently has neither of those things, instead of the states that do ?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 9, 2015
  14. me again

    me again Well-Known Member

    California has already been down that road, so why not learn from their mistakes, instead of repeating them?

    California used to offer "free" Associate degrees at community colleges until the taxpayers learned that "free" is not free because taxes rose commensurately to pay for A-L-L of it.

    "Free" is a lie.
     
  15. RAM PhD

    RAM PhD Member

    I was wondering when the voice of reason would kick in. Me Again is correct, nothing is free. What initially sounds compassionate quickly turns into another entitlement.

    Professors/instructors must be paid for their services.
    Books (or the online equivalent) must be provided.
    Administrative costs in each state's community college system must be taken care of.
    The cap/gown and printing the diploma cost something.
    It may not cost President Obama anything, or the recipient of the 2-year degree, but the taxpayer will most assuredly bear the cost.
     
  16. CalDog

    CalDog New Member

    And by the same logic, of course, "free" high school is a lie, "free" elementary school is a lie, and "free" roads and bridges are a lie. So are these things bad ideas too?

    Obviously there are real costs to these "free" things. The question is whether the benefits to society of subsidizing things like education or roads or bridges outweigh the costs. Even if the initial investments aren't "free", they may still pay off in the long run.

    Reasonable people may disagree as to whether such investments are worthwhile. The (Republican-controlled) state government of Tennessee obviously does believe that free community college education represents a good investment.

    And Obama clearly thinks so too. However, my guess is that the proposed program will not actually be implemented, given the current makeup of Congress. It may be that the only effect of Obama's proposal is to draw national attention to Tennessee's program; at best, it might influence a few other states to follow Tennessee's lead.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 9, 2015
  17. sanantone

    sanantone Well-Known Member

    I only have one associate's degree so far, but I am working on a second one in biology. My list isn't going to be as ridiculous as his with multiple degrees in business and criminal justice/law enforcement. Here is the wishlist I posted on the other forum.

    Polysomnography
    Nursing
    Veterinary Technology
    Surgical Technology
    Radiography
    Occupational Therapy Assistant
    Physical Therapy Assistant
    Medical Laboratory Technology
    Criminal Justice with Peace Officer Certification Sequence
    Fire Science with Firefighter Training
    Culinary Arts
    Paralegal Studies
    Automotive Technology

    For low-income students, the taxpayer is already bearing the cost. Community colleges are subsidized by state and local taxes. On top of that, low-income (and even lower middle class) students receive enough in state and federal grants to more than cover the typical community college tuition. The only real difference with Obama's plan is that students from middle class and even upper class families would be able to attend CCs for free. However, since these are probably taxpaying families, they would be bearing the costs indirectly.
     
  18. Maniac Craniac

    Maniac Craniac Moderator Staff Member

    It just proves the old saying about Associate degrees in Criminal Justice: "I bet you can't have just one."
     
  19. potpourri

    potpourri New Member

    This quote reminds me of the Lays commercial when it comes to Lay's Potato Chips. I don't think that the Republican controlled Congress will approve Obama's proposal.
     
  20. major56

    major56 Active Member

    Straightforward economics: Any state or country that attracts users and drives out producers cannot /will not survive.

    The state’s (CA) finances are deeply reliant on personal income tax revenue. Additionally, California has the highest state corporate tax rates, sales and gasoline taxes in the U.S.; combining this with its hefty regulatory drain: Net outcome—a continuation in driving out businesses, hence jobs, future /projected tax revenues, etc., etc., etc. Regarding this current CA budget boon (e.g., continued revenue outperformance should not be booked as though reliable): In my view; just more Jerry Brown blue smoke and mirrors /illusion (e.g., The Brown administration is incorporating accrual basis accounting to define CA revenues (projected); AND cash basis accounting to cover its expenditure side in determining California revenue recognition). Intermixing methods (Accrual / Cash) as the accounting basis in the corporate arena is a no-go (e.g., FSAB /GAAP re uniform practice standards). This accounting basis using intermixing (accrual /cash) in determining revenue recognition is being recycled by Brown. Yet in doing so, is in my view, a nonsensical approach to credibly determine tangible revenues /cash flows.

    Just try employing this combination of accounting practice by the SEC… :nono:
     

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