Entering Med School with an Online Degree.

LOL she can study her Dummy's Guide at night

 

Awwwwww.......:hug:

So I just went back over to read the list of schools that "accept" online learning (as if they'd know....) and it brought me smack dab back to the middle of *that forum where everyone who knows nothing acts like they know everything and furthermore wants to tell you want to do. Oh wait, they might make EXCELLENT physicians....

Anyway, the truth is that the graph that shows rates crossed with GPA and MCAT scores are full of traditional students. These are KIDS who just finished high school about 3 years ago. Everyone seems to forget that. If you're 20 years old, you need to blend in. If you're 40, you need to stand out. I am not claiming to know anything about anything, but I've mulled this topic around a lot in my mind- spent almost 2 years considering the path- and I believe not only has it been done by several DL adults, but that number will likely grow, and I KNOW it can be done. Can everyone do it? No, but not everyone gets into med school EVEN IF they are traditional. It's a crap shoot no matter what. Just do the most you can as well as you can and probably stay off the premed forum! It's friggin nuts over there.

 

Posting as TS's wife.

Hello everyone ! Thank you for the replies.

My hubby made this post to find out abit more info about online classes and entering Med classes and I have to say, the information that has been given is really helpful !
I would like to update everyone on my current progress and abit on my background.
I went through high school in US till i was 16, after that, I moved to a commonwealth country (NZ) and took my GSCE A levels at 18. I eventually relocated to Singapore were I went for my undergraduate studies in Education. Med School has always been on my mind but in Singapore, there's only 2 med-schs in the country and entry into either one of them is extremely competitive. (Entrance was a GSCE A levels with AAAA score). Fast forward 3 years and I've been working as a teacher (still with the dream of entering med-sch).
I took an MCAT at the start of this year to 'try'.
My average score was a 31. I did spend the year before doing some self study. But I know by the time I've completed my pre-req classes for med school, I'll need to take the MCAT again.

I've made some enquirers with some medical schools in the states (I emailed/called the 'lesser ranked' schools) to check on entry requirements.
All require me to have my transcripts evaluated to judge it's equivalence to a US degree.
I was highly recommended to shadow a doctor, and this has to be done in the US.
One med school told me the chances to be considered is very low because I did not earn my degree from a US RA school.
Most did not have an issue if I took the classes online, as long as the school was RA.
But all recommended me to have face-to-face time with my instructors to get a good LOR.
One school from the mid west said my application/experience as a teacher would stand out as different. (Which was suppose to be a positive)

After all those phone calls to the schools, I'm hoping I can spend the whole of 2014 preparing for everything.
I'll be relocating back to the US in Dec this year. My plan would be something like this ~

1. Once Jan, start classes at a local CC, or state Uni (I've yet to decide if I want to do a second degree)
2. Look up hospitals to do volunteer work for a year.
3. Finish everything by Dec 2014 / have the applications send out + using my current MCAT score

If I get rejected for everything ~ I'll continue using my credits from pre-med to complete a second degree in Bio or Chem, and apply into Med school the following year again with a new MCAT.
Or I could aim for a graduate program in Bio med to eventually do lab research work. (That's my second plan)

Oh, I'm 24, I'm not sure if that's good or bad with regards to age and starting to study. But my hubby supports the idea of me trying to enter med school.
Hopefully there's a way to enter. Oh, we'll be relocating to MA. I'm not sure if it's good or bad but we have family there.

If anyone has advice/alternatives please do let me know!

PS. I remembered one of the schools I made a call to, asking me what was my intention of becoming a doctor.
I told them I would like to treat children in under developed communities.
She did not say anything else after that.

Does that mean anything ?


Thank you!

 

score of 31 without having taken science? Wow, that's very impressive. It sounds like you have a good plan! Good luck!!

 

That is fantastic.

I'll assume you mean 2015.

Completing the science prerequisites in one calendar year starting in January is an unusual schedule and at some schools it will be impossible.

Issue 1: The prerequisites include one year each of general chemistry and organic chemistry, and the general chemistry is almost always a prerequisite for organic chemistry. The usual way to do both in one calendar year is either to start in the summer and take 8 sh gen chem in an intensive format in the summer, then o chem I in fall and II in spring, or to start in the fall and take gen chem I and II, then 8 sh o chem in an intensive format in the summer.

This leads in to issue 2: Within the regular academic year (non-summer), for the yearlong premedical science sequences, schools typically offer semester I in the fall term and semester II in the spring term. Some schools will also offer January (spring) entries to semester I and summer and/or fall entries to semester II, but you'll want to look into whether this is available at your school.

24 is older than the mode, but exactly the mean now per a recent report.

Any questions about Harvard Extension School and Harvard Summer School, please let me know.

That's a great reason! Let me tee off of this to add another suggestion. Within your shadowing/volunteer/clinical experience, even though your aspirations are strongly to pediatrics, I would try to include substantial work with older adult patients. Your clinical rotations during medical school would probably be largely in general medical settings with mostly adult patients.

 

Hi Jonathan,

I'm seriously considering Harvard Extension School. My hubby is taking some online classes through them.
For the health program - can the classes be done online ? (Not all, but if some can be done online, I can make an application soon and get started.)
I was reading about the sponsorship, I'm hoping an MCAT with a score of 31 can be considered for some sort of financial sponsorship.
On their website, I read, admission into medical school is very low. (I'm assuming this is a general statement for everyone who has applied into Med sch and not specifically a ratio of Harvard's health program's students who have been admitted into med sch.) ? I'm not sure if my sentence even makes sense.

Also, what happens to these credits if I do not make it into med sch ? Can they be used for a second degree if I wish to pursue one?
I saw Harvard Extension School has an undergraduate degree in Biology. That could be something I could pursue if all else fails.

I know most of the questions could be answered by Harvard themselves, but I thought I'd ask you first (nothing beats first hand experience!)

Oh one more then, will the GPA for the Harvard health program be considered when applying into Med Sch ? (since the credits are not part of a degree - not sure if med schools will look at their scores or just a tick in the box for fulfilling certain requirements.)



So excited !

 

Your relocating to Massachusetts? You really need to get with Whatley and fully explore the program at Harvard Extension.

Edited to say......you beat me to it!

 

I may have missed this, but have you had your undergraduate degree evaluated yet? If not, I think that might be a good step to take soon so that you'll have a better idea of how it will be received by graduate schools.

Here is a link to another discussion that lists some of the companies that perform evaluations of transcripts from non-US schools: http://www.degreeinfo.com/general-distance-learning-discussions/46377-non-us-credential-evaluation-query.html

 

All of the core premedical science courses – BIOS E-1A/B, CHEM E-1A/B, CHEM E-2A/B, and PHYS E-1A/B, and their Harvard Summer School equivalents (S-…), are on-campus only, with significant lab and exam requirements for which you have to be there.

I have a friend who lived on the far eastern side of MA and took gen chem this past year as close to a hybrid course as possible – she watched lecture and Friday Review videos and worked with pdfs from the course website, and commuted in about once per week for required labs and exams and to turn in her problem sets (homework). This is not ideal, but was the best option available to her until she moved closer to Boston (which she has).

HES (and Harvard Summer School) offer some elective courses in biology or closely related online. Courses offered online in recent semesters include, IIRC Neurobiology, Stem Cell and Regenerative Biology, and Biostatistics.

Also: You can enroll in HES and Summer School courses without admission to the Health Careers Program. The main advantage of the Health Careers Program is eligibility for "sponsorship," in which the HCP office compiles a composite letter of recommendation for medical school. Non-HCP students who perform well are still eligible for individual LORs from their course instructors.

HES tuition costs are exceptionally low relative to other colleges, but there are limited in-house scholarships, possibly none for non-degree students. (Summer School tuition costs are more expensive.)

General statement for everyone – and everyone includes HES students, but this isn't a comparative statement between HES and other places to take premedical courses.

I'm not 100% certain whether already holding a bachelor's degree, from outside the U.S., could be an impediment to admission to an HES bachelor's. You might check with the undergraduate degree (ALB) admissions office.

Absolutely it will. The med school admission process derives a cumulative GPA that will include these credits.

 

Med school admissions is its own special world to which this (thoughtful) general advice doesn't apply. AMCAS, the central application service for I believe all U.S. MD schools outside of Texas, "does not accept transcripts from international evaluation services." AACOMAS, the central application service for DO schools, has its own specific list of evaluation services, currently given here (pdf, search through the text for "evaluation services"). I'd wait on this step until you're closer to application.

 

I've sent HES an email with my questions about the credits earned and such.
Would be great if I can get something started this summer, if not, I'll have to wait till I relocate at the end of the year.
I will be having my transcripts evaluated, but once I consult the schools I wish to apply into - I suspect each school might have a specific organization to have my transcripts evaluated.

Btw Jonathan, I'll be moving with my family to Sharon, MA. We have family there.
Any idea of the commute to Boston (My car? or train) would be long ? (Like 2 hours ++)
We might just reconsider and rent a place around HES area if the travel time is really to long.
I have 2 kids that needs tlc. lol.

 

Oh another thing - I hear that an MCAT of 33+ is ideal for admission ?
Is there any truth in that?
I was asking over the phone - and 2 schools did mention an 'ideal cut off score' - both said 33 would give my application serious consideration.

 

Well, Google Maps is more encouraging. And a sensible alternative to driving all the way would be to drive in to the Red Line, which goes to Braintree...

 

Yep! Table 24 [pdf] from the AMCAS Applicants and Matriculants Data is useful. Remember that this reflects US MD schools, and doesn't include DO schools or international medical schools.

 

So just an update

Called up HES and went through a short Q&A consultation with the adviser.
I never actually told her I have a degree, I just asked if I was to do the health program - could I then use the credits for a HES degree if I did not make it into Med School.
Adviser said the credits can be used on a HES degree but I must be a first time degree candidate. (I was quite shocked because I never knew HES bothered if you have/had a previous degree)
Was also informed that I do not need to register for the Health program per-say. I could just be a HES student to take whatever classes I need.
I won't be eligible for FA, but that's fine for me.

Also did more research about pre-med courses on websites and forums, something stuck me - med schools frown upon pre-med classes done at a CC. There's nothing solid about the statement but there seems to be alot of forum talk about it - better to do the pre-med courses at a 4 year state Uni.

So I'm seriously considering doing a second degree - with the following break down.

1.) Complete 30 credits of pre-med on campus

2.) Complete the other 90 credits through different sources.
- CLEP testing for lower level credits
- CC classes online for cheaper lower level credits
- Self paced classes for upper level credits

Once I've completed all 90 through all the different sources, or even at the 4 year Uni I intend to gradate from. (hopefully this can be done asap) - transfer them into a 4 year school where I will do the last 30 credits (Pre-med) on campus and graduate with a degree in something + find a Doc to shadow and clinic volunteering. Est this part would take a full year to be completed.

I can see the plus points in doing this.
1. Get a good GPA
2. Gives me time to better my older MCAT score (31).
3. Increases my chances of Med school?

I can also see some cons in doing this.
1. Spending extra money on a second degree
2. Wasting 1, maybe 2 years more to do this.

If anyone has other ideas/options, feel free to shed some light.

 

At a four-year bachelor's-granting institution, yes. There's no specific advantage to a state university. State is often suggested on the forums because a state school in your home state is typically lower in tuition. But you might not qualify for MA in-state tuition immediately upon moving here; in that case this wouldn't have effect for you.

First of all, if you were doing this, you could probably, indeed you might be expected to, apply credits from your prior foreign degree as transfer credit. That would probably give you that circa 90 semester hours, and you'd be expected to do at least the last 30 semester hours from the American school granting the degree (this is called "in residency," but it means in-house institutionally rather than on-campus physically. This min. 30 semester hour residency requirement wouldn't exist at a "Big Three" adult degree completion school.)

Further, the requirements for the major for your degree will include that many, possibly most, of those upper-level credits are in your major subject. There aren't many self-paced upper-level courses in biology or chemistry. As a transfer student coming in with about 90 semester hours, a traditional college will also tend expect that the bulk of what you earn in residency with them should then be upper-level. You're a senior (fourth-year student), or close. But the core premedical courses are lower-level at most schools. (I've seen one case of the organic chemistry sequence being counted as upper-level, but I think it's typically counted as second-year level.)

Also, I don't believe your AMCAS (US MD admissions cleaning house) GPA will include credits earned through an institution outside the U.S. or Canada. If this also holds for the admissions committees at individual med schools, and the AACOMS (US DO) GPA if you'd be pursuing DO school, you wouldn't have nearly as much incentive to earn a lot of credits to repair your GPA than a student coming in with a US or Canadian degree with a 3.1 GPA.

As to the CLEPs, those basically shouldn't affect your GPA for premedical purposes.

 

https://services.aamc.org/postbac/

 

Post-Baccalaureate Premedical Program | Brandeis University

M.S. in Medical Sciences Program » Graduate Medical Sciences | Boston University

 

A friend started premedical coursework at Brandeis but soon went elsewhere in town. Gen Chem I required apparently heavy calculus (!).

This isn't a means to take core premedical prerequisites. This is a "Special Master's Program (SMP)," and typically – and for BU's specifically – applicants already have to have the core prerequisites. The market for SMPs is "academic record enhancers" who are already eligible to apply for med school (or very close; they may have applied already or be applying concurrently but have not gotten in).