Please explain UNISA doctorate???!!!

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by anngriffin777, Mar 10, 2014.

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  1. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    I don't think it's all that true. It would make you about as competitive as anyone else with a Ph.D. from a school no one's ever heard of, minus the situations biased against a foreign degree and minus the situations biased against a degree from an African university and minus the situations biased against SA universities.

    Perhaps none of that will matter. Good. But getting a Ph.D. doesn't mean community colleges--which are rife with them--will beat down your door. It will be an advantage in some situations, though.
     
  2. distancedoc2007

    distancedoc2007 New Member

    This is very true in my experience. It IS all or nothing, and "nothing" looms as a very real possibility until you are done external reviews and the thesis is accepted by the senate. There are no part-marks or runner-up trophies. You could spend 4+ years and have nothing concrete to show but the knowledge you gained and the stuff you wrote. It was a high-stakes game, and I'm glad I played it and won, but many will prefer the satisfaction that comes from passing individual courses, receiving grades, and in some cases (I guess) being able to bail out partway and get a masters.
     
  3. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Many programs will award a master's in the face of a failed doctoral thesis. BUT YOU SHOULDN'T BE FAILING THE THESIS! You shouldn't be able to get to the viva voce without being ready. At that stage, you should expect either minor or major amendments, or even to go out and gather more data. But fail? How would one's advisor let it get to that? And why would the university agree to examine the thesis if it wasn't (nearly) ready?

    If you sought a doctorate and ended up with a master's, you left prior to finishing the thesis.
     
  4. distancedoc2007

    distancedoc2007 New Member

    In some programs like mine, one of the final gates is external reviews, done by people not directly connected to the school. It's a good QC mechanism, but if a majority of those come back as "failed" you are dead in the water, no appeals. I can't imagine this happening for all the reasons you mentioned, but it still hangs over you as a possibility. When I got the word that my externals had all come back positive there was a scream of joy heard all around my neighborhood. LOL
     
  5. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    I agree but I have seen many times adjuncts with PhDs from UNISA. An example below:

    UMUC Faculty List | Faculty | UMUC

    UMUC has listed 3 adjunct faculty members with degrees from UNISA.


    I think is not a bad bet for adjunct positions. Many might want just to teach on the side but not willing to invest a fortune for this so the UNISA degree might fit the bill.
     
  6. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    I really, reaaaaaaaaaalllllllllllllly want to point out something. Doing a UNISA degree because it (seems) inexpensive is a mistake. These degrees are hard for Americans to do. Yes, some people persevere, and boy am I impressed. But it is a damn hard thing to do, and extremely foreign to Americans, who are used to their universities setting up everything and putting it in front of them. Also, they ain't all that cheap.

    As someone with some recent experience in this area, doing a doctorate at a foreign university is one tough prospect. Go wisely.
     
  7. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    As I mentioned before, this type of degrees are not meant for the working professional that is supporting a family and holds a full time job. This type of degrees are meant for people already working as academics and already doing research as part of their jobs. These programs are also offered by government institutions with a lot of red tape and taught by faculty that have no rush to graduate students in short period of times as they don't get paid by student but a yearly salary.

    It is not common in the UK and SA for people to start academic careers with a PhD, most start their university careers with a M.Sc and earn the PhD on the job. The reason is that academic careers in the UK and SA pay low compared to industry so it is not very realistic for Universities to hire people with a PhD from the beginning.

    PhDs from places like Walden, Capella, etc are meant for the working professional. They are set up so people can accommodate family and career commitments with doctoral studies. Faculty working at these institutions are paid by student so they are interested in graduating students as fast as possible.

    In few words, it might be cheaper to enroll in a program that you know you can finish although is expensive than enrolling in a program that has low tuition fees but you might never finish. There is also the opportunity cost, if someone is making a handsome salary (100K+), it might be more cost effective to dish the 50K for a PhD at Walden or Capella and finish the degree fast without inconvenient. One might argue that a PhD from UNISA is more prestigious than one from Walden or Capella but for practical purposes, it might not make much of a difference.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 11, 2014
  8. distancedoc2007

    distancedoc2007 New Member

    If you have a really strong handle on what you want to research, then a research doctorate is a good choice. If you want to learn more about a particular discipline in a structured way, and then come up with a research topic, then a traditionally-structured doctorate is a good choice. I would say it depends where you are in relation to having a viable research topic and being ready to propose a research plan, rather than one being more difficult than the other.
     
  9. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    I don't think Rich is making an argument about research vs structured doctorate. The argument is that many of the American PhDs are more customer oriented and try to accommodate students' needs and tend to lax some of the requirements in order to increase enrollments (e.g. no publication requirements, no GMAT, etc).
    UNISA is a government, mega university that has the typical full time unionized faculty. The school is not there to accommodate your needs and faculty is not there to take you by the hand as they have job security that is not threaten by the few dollars Americans pay for tuition. Many of the complaints about UNISA come from this angle, many American students are used to the "customer is the boss" and find difficult to deal with slow responses, long waiting times, rigorous processes, etc.
     
  10. CalDog

    CalDog New Member

    Note that while UNISA is a "mega-university" in terms of enrollment, it is not "mega" in terms of staffing. By US standards, UNISA is ridiculously understaffed. For example, UNISA has posted a list of staff in their History Department, and their areas of expertise for supervising postgraduate research, on this page.

    They have 8 academic staff in history -- to serve 350,000 students.

    In the US, there are small liberal arts colleges, with enrollments of less than 2,000, that have more history professors than that.

    As this news story indicates, UNISA faculty bear "extraordinary loads", and this "affects the quality of supervision". They can't lead students by the hand, even if they wanted too -- there's just too many hands.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 11, 2014
  11. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    Well, it's not quite that bad. Postgraduate students in other fields shouldn't be included, and since UNISA doesn't have a general education component, undergraduates won't be taking any subjects in History either unless that's their degree program. That eliminates most of them right there. Then the question is whether these same few faculty members are all the ones available to teach undergraduates or whether part time instructors or tutors are widely used at the undergraduate level. Normally I'd guess the latter, although I suppose the M&G article makes the former believable. Sad, if true.
     
  12. CalDog

    CalDog New Member

    Here's another way to look at it.

    UNISA, according to their own statistics, had about 5,650 staff (including both faculty and administrative staff).
    That's about the same as Princeton University, which has "nearly 6,000 benefits-eligible faculty and staff".

    UNISA's 2011 enrollment: about 328,000.
    Princeton's enrollment: about 8,000.

    It's certainly true that UNISA needs fewer staff in some respects, because it isn't trying to do everything that Princeton does (like world-class research, or NCAA DI athletics). And since Princeton is one of the wealthiest schools in the world, they are probably unusually lavish with their staffing.

    But even so, it's hard to believe that those 6,000 Princeton staff could still do their jobs well if the school suddenly expanded by a factor of 40, from 8,000 students to 320,000 or so.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 11, 2014
  13. jhp

    jhp Member

    I am now more confused then before I knew anything about UniSA. I guess ignorance is bliss sometimes!

    SteveFoerster, what do you mean by "big book" dissertation/thesis?

    I am not much worried that I have to do most of things by myself. After all, aren't most distance education relies heavily on self motivation?

    But - does anyone know, if the topic I select is accepted, do I get an adviser assigned?

    At R21 700 ($2K) a year is minimal for an accredited PhD.

    I think my biggest problem will be finding the right PhD for the sub-field I am interested in.
     
  14. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Two approaches to the Ph.D., depending upon the system you're in. ("System" meaning "country.")

    -- "Small book" or "taught" approach. A curriculum of courses, followed by a dissertation of about 50K words. (YMMV.) You're assessed at each course, often by a comprehensive exam, then the dissertation. This is the approach seen in the U.S.

    -- "Big book" or "Ph.D. by research." No specified curriculum. You write a bigger thesis (80-100K, typically). You're assessed on the thesis only. There may or may not be courses or other study requirements set out by your advisor; YMMV. (This would be done if you need to shore up your knowledge in areas.) You may or may not have on-campus requirements--and they're often not known at the outset of your degree. Again, YMMV.

    -- Difference in these dissertations/theses, other than size: Bigger projects, more comprehensive literature review, more subjects, more experiments, perhaps larger outcomes sought (such as theory building instead of theory testing, or both, or bigger theory vs. smaller one, etc.).

    The tuition will be the least of your costs. And the least of your hassles with UNISA.
     
  15. jhp

    jhp Member

    Thank you! I actually work in a "big book" style environment, so that should not be a problem. Mostly alone, chipping at the precipice of my field.

    Of course, now I have to ask about your last sentence. I understand the issues around responsiveness, educator/student ratio, and ignorance of UniSA's accreditation outside of SA. What else are you referring to?

     
  16. distancedoc2007

    distancedoc2007 New Member

    I honestly had no hassles with UNISA, and found the process to earn my doctorate was very well laid out and smooth. You need to go through an agency like IACI to take care of the up-front paperwork, but once you are in a particular program it is a very different world. I had terrific supervisors, and loved my visits to the university to present stages of my work. I can only talk about my experience, but I did start and finish the doctorate and graduate and am looking at "the piece of paper" on my wall as I type this. The frustrations people may report are probably coming from expecting a relatively small staff that deals with 350,000 students to get back to you quickly. You need to get into a specific program program first, then you are dealing with people who know who you are.
     
  17. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    Generally, I think we agree here -- I'm not arguing that UNISA isn't understaffed, I just wish we had complete numbers to get a clear sense of how understaffed they really are. For example, when Princeton refers to "benefits-eligible faculty and staff" that means they're excluding adjuncts, and I expect that UNISA makes much more use of contingent instructors and tutors than Princeton does. If so, then that's still not ideal, but it's less apocalyptic then the situation as it's been described. I'd be curious to know.
     
  18. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    There's the arcane application process, too. Oh and this....

    There's this from another post in the thread by "distancedoc2007" who says he/she did a doctorate at UNISA:

    "I had terrific supervisors, and loved my visits to the university to present stages of my work."

    South Africa is a long way from everywhere, except South Africa. And if you're required to go (several times?), the cost of that degree goes waaaaaaaaaay up.

    (BTW, I love residencies, too. But there are those who post around here who are vehemently against them.)
     
  19. distancedoc2007

    distancedoc2007 New Member

    This is usually the time and tone where I bow out of these threads. Yes, I enjoyed the visits to SA. The DBL program is very clear that you have to attend 3 colloquia and present and receive feedback on your progress to date, so it's neither a surprise nor a hidden cost, just something to plan and budget for. These aren't residencies, but single-day visits. You are on the stage for about an hour, and there are networking opportunities that day also.The program isn't for everybody but I enjoyed it. I put myself out there because people here seem to want to meet and hear from somebody who has done actually done a UNISA doctorate, but then these discussions seem to digress into speculation and disagreement again. People can figure it out for themselves I guess.
     
  20. jhp

    jhp Member

    Well.. $2K/year for three years + 3 x $1,200 flight + $600 for 5 nights, + $300 for 5 days of food comes to ... $2,100 per trip, or $6,300 for the three visits. Let's move it to $7,000 and add school fee.

    $13,000 for a PhD. Is that reasonable?
     

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