GMAT/GRE/MAT-How tuff are these tests to get into grad school?

How hard are these grad school entrance exams? I really don't want to take any of these if I don't have to, but I might give it a shot. Fortunately, there are plenty of good schools that don't require these exams. Isn't taking the SAT/ACT to get into college in the first place enough? Good grief Charlie Brown!

 

All depends on the score you want to achieve. If you're shooting for a lower percentile score then not too difficult since you're only aiming to answer a small portion of the questions correctly.

If you want to get into a good school and score in the 60th+ percentile range, then they are difficult. I studied 4+ months for the GMAT and scored 600, which is okay but not great. There are graduate programs that do not require a standardized exam or waive the requirement for experienced professionals. If you don't want to take the GMAT, GRE or MAT then possibly consider one of those programs.

 

They are not as bad as going to grad school.

 

I think if people get the study books and study hard they should be able to score high-average at least, even if they don't always do well on tests. Combine that result with a solid application, well-rounded background and ideally a face-to-face meeting with an admissions advisor then the rest should be straightforward. Most schools worth attending take a 'portfolio view' of their applicants and look at a basket of attributes that predict success. You just don't want to knock yourself out of the running with a too-low score that stands out.

 

I've taken the GRE and the MAT and believe it is just a check mark in the application process! Perhaps some schools hold it in high regard but I believe they look at the whole student over a score.

 

If a school requires the GRE (or other standardized tests), then it typically means that the school has selective admissions. In other words, they get more applicants than they have room for, so they have to turn down many potential students.

For example, the full-time MBA program at UCLA has room for about 360 new students per year. Last year, they got 3,121 applicants for those slots, and most of them were probably well qualified. So UCLA has to make a lot of tough decisions -- which are going to be very disappointing to (literally) thousands of rejected applicants.

And to make it even worse, UCLA has to make apples-to-oranges comparisons. Suppose they have three candidates with identical GPAs: one is an electrical engineering major from a research university in California, one is an English major from a liberal arts college in New England, and one is a business major from an online school. Are the grading standards really the same for all three programs? If not, then what basis do you use to compare them?

Standardized tests aren't perfect, but they at least provide some form of apples-to-apples comparison. It's true that schools rarely have rigid score requirements; good grades or extracurricular activities can help to compensate for low test scores. But in general, the more competitive the admissions process, the higher your test scores need to be, in order to have a good chance of admission.

At UCLA, for example, most enrolled students have GMAT scores in the 660-750 range, which basically means the top 20%. The average score is about 710, or about the top 10%. Realistically, scoring in the top 10-20% on the GMAT is not a routine, take-the-test and check-the-box requirement.

If a school has unselective admissions, then there is no incentive to require tests like the GMAT or GRE. There is a big downside to requiring tests: they are an expensive and unpopular hassle for many students, so they drive potential applicants away. And there is no upside, since an unselective school is going to accept pretty much everyone anyway, regardless of how they score.

 

Good points but the reality is for every "UCLA" there are a dozen schools that require a graduate exam for the sake of requiring one. I am not saying to blow off studying for the exam. Certainly, put your best foot forward and do well! I am simply saying it appears to be a formality and one small part of a greater equation when selecting an applicant. It would be interesting to research studies that show a correlation between graduate entrance exam scores and relativity to success in graduate school.

 

A lot of schools are very strict about not accepting anyone who can't meet the minimum score on graduate admissions tests, or they will only grant conditional admission to them. Usually, the lower you score on the test, the higher your GPA needs to be and vice versa. In other words, what you score on the GRE/GMAT/MAT/LSAT can even help make up for a low GPA and the other way around.

 

Yep, that's true. I forgot about it.

 

It's relatively easy for a given program to do a study like that, but the results tend to be ambiguous. The problem is that most programs end up admitting students within a relatively narrow range of test scores. To get back to the UCLA MBA example above, practically all of their admitted students have GMAT scores around the 90th percentile, plus or minus 10 points. So a study of UCLA MBA students might have a "high GMAT" group of students who scored in the 90-100 percentile, and a "low GMAT" group of students who scored in the 80-90 percentile. But that's not a very big difference in GMAT. So you might not expect very big differences in academic performance either.

To really see the effects of test scores, you would ideally want to look at a more diverse group, maybe students who scored at the 90th percentile vs. those who scored at the 50th percentile vs. those who scored at the 10th percentile. But individual programs don't usually have that kind of diversity. UCLA, for example, doesn't have any students who scored at the 10th percentile, or the 50th percentile, or probably even the 75th percentile. You just won't get into UCLA with scores at those levels.

*****

You can do a different kind of analysis with law schools. Law students take one standardized test before starting law school (the LSAT) and another after finishing (the Bar). It's well known that law schools have very different average LSAT scores. But it is also well known that the schools with the highest LSAT scores also generally have the highest bar pass rates. So in this case, you can correlate entrance exam scores with professional success, if you assume that passing the bar exam is a measure of professional success.

 

Honestly, they're annoying, they aren't particularly difficult. Each one is different so each person will have a different take on which is easier/more difficult. I scored in the high- 600's on the GMAT with only taking two practice exams because they target things I am relatively strong in. I took the LSAT 12 years ago in my final semester of college, took a prep course, studied several months and found that exam quite taxing.
Honestly, unless you're targeting a top school I wouldn't worry to much. Study a bit and take the exam. You'll be fine and having those standardized test scores open up so many more options in terms of schools you can apply to.

 

Those exams might be difficult for someone who does not understand the difference between tuff and tough. (You have annoyed my inner grammar Nazi)

:banghead:

 

All these standardized tests try to evaluate a certain kind of knowledge or thinking process. You can be really smart and still do poorly. Or you might do well but be unable to perform in other areas. No one can tell you whether the test will be hard or easy for you. I have a strong tendency to do well on these sorts of tests but I know others who have scored poorly and yet I think of them as being much smarter than me.

 

Hello All,

As this thread is already veering off topic, I would like to ask the group a question.

After beginning my search for business related Ph.Ds, it is becoming apparent that taking a GRE should be one of the first steps. Can anyone offer any advice on test prep material? I guess mainly what I am looking for is a good book with practice tests, but am open to anything that works.

Thanks,
Chad