Accountancy PHD or DBA and Academia

Discussion in 'Business and MBA degrees' started by pietto, Mar 24, 2013.

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  1. pietto

    pietto New Member

    I am interested in changing profession and moving into academia. My background is IT w/ my MS/IT. After reading about the current and future shortage of accounting professors I have decided to pursue this as an avenue to research and teaching. My questions revolves around what fields within accounting should one focus? Also I have read the argument for PHD vs DBA for entering academia. My plans is still either way, I would prefer a PHD but I have to balance reality with that idea.

    thanks
     
  2. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    Given your background, I would suggest a specialization in Information Technology Auditing, Enterprise Risk Management or Accounting information Systems. In the case of Accounting, I don't think it matters much DBA vs PhD but the accreditation of the school (AACSB accredited). If you are not able to afford an AACSB accredited, you can also differentiate yourself with a recognized certification such as CPA, CMA, CISA, etc.
    There are not so many PhD or DBA AACSB accredited in the field of Accounting, I am afraid that your options are either non AACSB accredited options in the US or some accredited in foreign countries (Australia, UK).
     
  3. Phdtobe

    Phdtobe Well-Known Member

    An accounting designation or both cpa and the cma is a must on your journey towards to a doctorate. By the time you have completed your doctorate, if you are any good at accounting you wouldn't want to work in academia anyway. You will earn more outside academia. That is of the main reasons for the shortage.
     
  4. AV8R

    AV8R Active Member

    There's a lot of truth to this.

    There also aren't, to the best of my knowledge, any doctoral degree programs currently available in accounting via distance learning. Nova Southeastern has a DBA in accounting, but it's not a true DL program. It requires frequent on-campus visits.
     
  5. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    Yes and no. The OP is not an accountant but an IT guy, if the OP does a PhD in accounting part time, most likely he will need to keep working in IT to pay for the bills while he gets his PhD. The industry won't care much about his PhD but expect a CPA instead as this is the legal license in most states for external auditing. If the OP only has a PhD in accounting and decides to work in industry, most likely he would need to start as an intern with a low paid job in a CPA firm and work his way up. However, academia will be more interested in the PhD and his research potential with a starting salary for 120K-150K for the right candidate. Most CPA interns would make 40K when they start. In the long term, a CPA can make more than a PhD with a lot less education but if one has already a PhD just makes more sense to teach in my opinion.

    As for certifications, some states can grant a CPA certificate without experience certified by a CPA but most states have this requirement. The CMA would be the best option in my opinion as the certifications doesn't need experience certified by a CPA and is more focused in risk management and internal control that is closer to IT.

    The issue here is what kind of job and salary the OP is expecting have. If OP is happy with an 60-80K starting salary job at a no name school then a PhD from a low tier school such as Walden, Capella, etc with a CMA will do the job. If the OP wants to become a professor at a ranked AACSB accredited school, I am afraid that the only option would be to do a full time residential 5 year program at an American or Canadian AACSB accredited school or try some of the overseas programs that are AACSB accredited but they are most likely in the 80K range and might require some visits but this option would almost guarantee a starting salary of 120 to 150K.

    Also bear in mind that full time residential programs in Accounting that are AACSB accredited have high admission standards and require high score GMATs (at least 600) and many times previous masters from AACSB accredited schools or with strong reputations with a high GPA.
     
  6. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    In the US, I know of Walden, NCU and Capella but they lack AACSB accreditation.

    Overseas, you have QUT that has AACSB accreditation but you are looking at least 80K in tuition fees plus some traveling.
    http://www.qut.edu.au/study/courses/doctor-of-philosophy-business

    The program can be completed in external mode according to the catalog, external mode is the UK and Australian term for "Distance or off campus"
    "Note: Part-time and external study options may be available depending on the project, infrastructure requirements and funding arrangements. "
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 25, 2013
  7. Phdtobe

    Phdtobe Well-Known Member

  8. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    These are great findings. The SA and Malaysian options seem to be affordable but not AACSB accredited, they might be good options for someone looking to adjunct on the side or teach at a small college or university on a full time basis.
    University of Manchester is highly ranked school, my guess is that a doctorate from this school would open the door to top paid dollar opportunities.
     
  9. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    If you consider Al-Madinah, be sure that approval in Malaysia covers all of a school's programs. This is something that varies by country, and I don't think we've determined it conclusively for Malaysia.
     
  10. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    Also, if the OP is considering a non AACSB accredited foreign school, he or she should consult with WES to check if this school would be considered to an equivalent American PhD.

    Not because the Malaysian government accredits it, it means that it will be accepted in the states.

    Although there is a shortage of accounting professors, one has to be careful by adding too many risk variables into the equation. Foreign degree from non Western Country, Distance learning, non top ranked school, non AACSB, etc all are risk factors that will diminish your chances of employment.
     
  11. Phdtobe

    Phdtobe Well-Known Member

    In the journal of accounting ethics, An accounting phd is not really a phd in accounting - ethical issues.

    What's Wrong with the Curriculum in Accounting PhD Programs? Five Case Studies Viewed from the Perspectives of Economics and Ethics by Robert McGee :: SSRN
     
  12. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    I have a friend who is about to finish a PhD in accounting, the guy is not able to file his own income tax but is able to write a research paper in sustainable accounting. HE was admitted with a Masters in Engineering.

    Most accounting faculties have mainly CPAs or Chartered accountants (Canada) with MBAs and few PhDs that can write the research papers to maintain accreditation.

    The problem with many of these PhD programs is that are not professional but research oriented so a person joining with no accounting background will not be able perform as an accountant but just write accounting articles.

    That is why many schools prefer someone with a PhD and a CPA but this profile is not easy to get as to qualify for a CPA license you need to work in many cases under the supervision of a CPA during several years and people with no accounting backgrounds doing Accounting PhDs are not likely to qualify for one. It might also be possible that a PhD in Accounting is unable to pass the CPA exam as many of the PhDs programs lack courses in Taxation, business law etc.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 26, 2013
  13. Woho

    Woho New Member

    Somehow I can't find McGee's faculty page anymore, but he has definitely the most awesome collection of PhD degrees. Wouldn't be surprised to find him around here on this forum.
    To quote his Linkedin Profile:
     
  14. foobar

    foobar Member

    Did anybody here READ this paper?

    Did anybody notice that the author is the editor of the journal in which it is published?

    I was skeptical of this guy's collection of doctorates. For me, this paper raises questions about the quality of his claimed education. His primary criticism is that Ph.D. programs in accounting are "false advertising" because there is very little accounting content in the top tier accounting Ph.D. programs.

    A point that is drilled into accounting doctoral students in traditional programs is that accounting Ph.D. programs do not teach accounting; they train accounting researchers. A newly admitted student that is deficient in accounting normally takes "remedial" masters-level coursework in their first year.

    What McGee is describing is a professional degree in accounting, similar to the DNP in nursing. Unfortunately, there is no real demand for such a degree in accounting practice. While state boards of accountancy generally require 150 semester hours for licensure as a CPA, few if any, require more than 30 semester hours in accounting at the undergraduate level. I don't know of any accountancy board that requires a masters degree. It is instructive to note that many of the older, knowledgeable, and experienced partners in major CPA firms only hold a bachelors degree.

    Many, if not most CPA firms do not distinguish between a masters degree and 150 credit hours of "random credit" for hiring decisions as long as an employment candidate meets the education requirements for a CPA license. The only exception that I see is where a masters degree coveys a desired specialization (e.g.,taxation, IT auditing).

    I agree that there are accounting PhDs that don't really know accounting. Top tier schools are more concerned with a student's quantitative skills than their accounting knowledge and prefer to admit engineers or math types with MBAs. The graduates of such programs are employed as accounting faculty at other top tier programs and are hired solely for their research acumen. They might teach one or two doctoral courses a year and are not allowed anywhere close to undergraduate students. Sometimes they are not expected to teach at all. And they get the big bucks - $200,000 and up fresh out of school.

    Doctoral students at lower tier PhD programs are either admitted with an accounting background or are required to take masters level accounting courses in their first year in the program. The lower tier schools need their doctoral students in the classroom as TAs.

    It is telling that this article was published in a journal of which the author is the editor and which does not seem to be associated with a known academic publishing house. I don't see this article being published in a respected peer-reviewed accounting journal.
     
  15. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member



    Actually, it seems that the journal only publishes articles from one author (the editor)
    http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/Jeljour_results.cfm?nxtres=31&form_name=Pip_jrl&journal_id=101208&Network=no&SortOrder=ab_approval_date&stype=desc&lim=false

    This is not a credible journal, it is not indexed and the articles are hosted at angelfire that is a free host.

    Accounting PhDs are in demand but most schools would still prefer someone with a CPA on top of the PhD.

    The issue of PhDs focusing too much in research and little in professional training is not unique to accounting. I used to teach MIS and many of the PhDs in MIS couldn't be able to write a small web page but were excellent writers on articles on how to use web technology in business.

    I think that at some point, there will be enough PhDs in Accounting so individuals would need to train with a professional designation on top of the PhD in order to secure employment. I don't think you can't replace professional training with a PhD, the doctorate trains accounting researchers but you also need professional training as you need to teach practitioners.
     
  16. Woho

    Woho New Member

    McGee has certainly an odd publishing strategy. He has also the habit of doing the exact same study with a co-author from every imaginable nation around the world and write a new paper on that.

    But overall he is a legit academic with publications in very reputable journals:
    Harvard Journal of Law & Public Policy - Academic tenure: An economic critique - Tags: TEACHERS -- Tenure COLLECTIVE bargaining -- Teachers
    Journal of Business Ethics - Three Views on the Ethics of Tax Evasion - Springer
    Stanford Journal of International Law - The Theory of Secession and Emerging Democracies: A Constitutional Solution by Robert McGee :: SSRN
     
  17. pietto

    pietto New Member

    thanks all for the much needed information.
     

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