Is ANY doctorate on par with the PhD?

I would also argue that many of the first professional degrees are not "first". For example, there are many audiologists, physical therapists, nurse practitioners, occupational therapists and pharmacists that hold bachelors, masters and post masters degrees and are licensed practitioners that do not hold doctorate degrees (This means their first degree was their "first professional" degree).

All of those professions now offer both "practice doctorates" post license and first professional programs for those entering the field. If Dr. Pina's information is correct, I can only conclude that the US DOE is not currently providing an accurate description for these "practice-based doctorates"!

PharmD
AuD
DNP
DPT
DOT

 

Or perhaps you're splitting hairs and the definition of professional does not include practicality. Paralegals work in law but do not have a first professional doctorate (the J.D) and are not admitted to the bar.

Audiologists and NPs often don't have doctorates, but they're not often listed as a partner on a practice dedicated to medicine or audiology unless they have the M.D or D.Aud because of licensing requirements.

Different strokes

 

The first professional doctorates are the current entry-level degrees for their fields. They are not really intended as an advance degree for practitioners licensed before a doctorate was the standard or required.

 

I believe I said that! However, those who have been licensed are now enrolling in programs to receive the "practice-based doctorate" Hence, not a first professional doctorate!

 

Yes and no! In many States, these professions have autonomous practices! The fact is, there are "practice-based doctorates" versus research or first professional doctorates.

 

Practice Based Doctorates

Many of us have "grandfathered" professions that did not require a doctorate when getting licensed and may still not require a doctorate depending on the State licensing requirements.

Example, my buddy is a licensed pharmacist with a bachelors degree and full autonomy. The new first professional doctorate is the PharmD (entry level). However, my buddy goes back to school to earn a PharmD (post graduate). The curriculum is completely different than those who are entry level or first professional. The curriculum focuses on the use of evidenced based science and is "practice-based". The doctoral capstone is usually an evidenced based project. These are called practice based doctorates. Often these programs have a clinical or internship that adds to the professional experience.

This is the case for many audiologists, physical therapists, nurse practitioners, occupational therapists, pharmacists, etc. and primarily focus on helping us use the research already out there and putting it into practice versus learning the trade in the case of "first professional" or developing "new research" in the case of a PhD.

 

You are correct, with the exception of the D.B.A. It has never been classified as a first professional degree. A first professional degree is required for entry into a specific profession (Medicine, law, pharmacy, dentistry, veterinary medicine, physical therapy, etc.). First professional degrees do not require conducting and defending a research study. Research doctorates, like the D.B.A., do not train people for a specific profession. Until recently, D.B.A.'s required dissertations and were structured identically to Ph.D.s. Not everyone studying for a DBA (or for a Ph.D., for that matter) is planning a faculty career. However, someone studying for a D.D.S. or D.M.D. is likely seeking to be a dentist.

 

As I have said, the "applied" or "practitioner" aspect of the degree is up to the institution. For the management degrees, Walden requires 1 more research course and the equivalent of four extra semester units for the Ph.D., so, clearly Walden has differentiated between the two degrees.

Without seeing examples of a Walden doctoral study versus a Walden dissertation, it is difficult to judge the difference between the two. The template link for the doctoral project provided in this thread has all of the components of a traditional dissertation, except that, instead of five chapters, there are three, as the review of literature (typically chapter two) has been incorporated into section 1 of the doctoral study and the presentation of the findings (i.e. the "results") which is normally chapter four of a dissertation, has been incorporated into section 3 of the doctoral study. All of the components are there, so, other than formatting, there does not appear to any major difference between the doctoral study and a dissertation. So Walden must have some other criteria that makes these two projects unique.

 

You are correct. My typo. The intermediate degree is the Ed.S.

 

It's not as easy and cut and dry as it appears! For example, the University of Arizona "first professional" Doctor of Physical Therapy (DPT) program offers an option of a terminal project (research option) or a capstone option (evidenced based option).

http://www.atsu.edu/ashs/programs/physical_therapy/documents/PTCurriculumOverview.pdf

Even though the capstone options utilize existing evidence based resources, the research is put into practice so the project requires IRB approvals. I'm not saying it has the same rigor as a PhD dissertation but there are certainly similarities in the framework! From my experience, many of the professors and curriculum designers are PhD holders so they push and reflect their experiences into the "first professional" or "practice based doctorate" programs as well. Just an opinion!

 

Very good point. You are exactly right. For years "ED" (Washington's acronym for the Dept. of Education, since DOE is used for the Dept. of Energy) has published the "Structure of U.S. Education," where it has differentiated first professional degrees and research doctorates. The D.B.A. and Ed.D. have always been in the research doctorate category and equated with the Ph.D. ED has never had a an official category of "professional" or "applied" doctorates. However, ED also granted authority to the DETC to offer first professional degrees and, later "professional doctorates," (which, apparently, means most anything but the Ph.D.) So ED is owed a lion's share of the blame for the confusion about doctoral degree titles.

ED, to a certain extent, has to play "catch up" to the professions. There is a strong push within many professional societies to increase the level of education required for their profession. Thus, physical therapy programs are eliminating the MPT degrees in favor of the DPT. In nursing, there is a big push to have the RN with BSN, rather than A.S. as the common degree for nurses (along with a push from MSN to DNP degrees).

 

Great example! Look at how many units are required for the program (171). A typical Ph.D. program is 60 semester/90 quarter hours (although some require more and fewer require less). Of course, as with many degrees of this type, the course list includes prerequisite science general ed courses that students may or may not have taken prior to entrance into the program. For all we know, this DPT research project may require just as much rigor as a Ph.D. dissertation.

 

Thanks for the correction! I put US DOE in google and the top line said US department of Education but the next line said US department of Energy. I'm just chuckling because in medical terms ED means erectile dysfunction.

 

Hmm. You said University of Arizona but gave a link to ATSU. Am I missing something?

 

Ooops sorry! The link was for AT Still University in Mesa Arizona. In any case, I hope the point was illustrated.

 

Hilarious!!!!

I would comment further and offer my own suggestions, but it would be just my luck that during our next visit from ED, I would get someone who read Degreeinfo. I am so tempted...

 

I think Dr. Pina makes a good point about the fact that many different doctoral programs (depending on the school and the purpose for which the doctorate was designed) may indeed equal or surpass the rigor of a particular PhD program. For instance, when comparing a DBA at a top notch business school with a distance learning PhD from a for profit. However, in terms of recognition and perception, the Ph.D. is perceived as the top of the academic credentials (at least here in the US). Even some MD's like to get a Ph.D. so that they are not just run of the mill MD's but MD, PhD's.

 

The procession is done alphabetically for all doctorates.

One is not "higher" than the other. Normally, a Ph.D. also has non-religious coursework and research whereas the Th.D. only requires religious coursework and research and may only be offered in specific religious areas of study. A good example of this is the Graduate Theological Union in Berkeley which offers both degrees.

"The GTU is unique in that it is both a degree-granting institution and a consortium of schools, institutes, and centers. In cooperation with our member schools, the GTU grants the M.A., Ph.D. and Th.D. degrees. The doctoral program is governed through a variety of Areas of Study consisting of participating faculty from the member seminaries, the Center for Jewish Studies, the Institute of Buddhist Studies, the Patriarch Athenagoras Orthodox Institute, and the Center for Theology and the Natural Sciences. There are also two Joint Doctoral Programs with the GTU and UC Berkeley, in the fields of Jewish Studies and Near Eastern Religions. In addition, Ph.D. students incorporate the critical and theoretical dimensions of university research disciplines in their programs and engage in coursework at UC Berkeley."

Ph.D. / Th.D. F.A.Q. | Graduate Theological Union

BTW I believe the joint programs will get you two Ph.D's, one from each institution.

- lifelonglearner