Zimmerman medical report and Martin autopsy results

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Discussions' started by jam937, May 16, 2012.

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  1. Randell1234

    Randell1234 Moderator

    Perhaps it is time to put the media on trial. I would love to see a class action lawsuit brought on by all the people dragged through the media with this type of reporting. There is no excuse for doctored 911 recordings. The whole situation is bad enough without making stuff up to fight about.
     
  2. Bruce

    Bruce Moderator

    I couldn't agree more....at some point, "Freedom of the Press" has to include accountability for deliberate false acts.
     
  3. friendorfoe

    friendorfoe Active Member

    I hope Zimmerman sues the beejeezuz out of MSNBC and wins. I've never seen a more clear cut, higher stakes game of defamation in my entire life.

    As they sort through the evidence it looks like Martin jumped Zimmerman near his car as Zimmerman prepared to leave. Martin beat the hell out of Zimmerman and Zimmerman pulled a gun and shot him in the process. The ballistics show contact range, and the angle of the shot is consistent with Zimmerman's claim of Martin being on top of him. I view testimonial evidence with skepticism but physical evidence is much harder to fake, especially ballistics and blood spatter.

    As for Martin being "high" I doubt that had anything to do with the fight but it does reveal a little bit about his character. That and the fact he was suspended from school, etc. He certainly isn't the "all American" doe eyed kid they pictured in the story.
     
  4. Bruce

    Bruce Moderator

    Considering the number of death threats he's received, I couldn't agree more.
     
  5. Bruce

    Bruce Moderator

    MSNBC Primetime Makes Zero Mentions Of Trayvon Martin Case After Pro-Zimmerman Evidence Surfaces

    In March and April, MSNBC’s primetime hosts ran with nearly wall-to-wall coverage of the killing of Florida teen Trayvon Martin. They regularly suggested that the lack of national interest in the case was worthy of outrage. Last week, when an avalanche of new evidence favorable to George Zimmerman came to light, MSNBC’s primetime lineup didn’t just bury the story, they didn’t mention Martin or Zimmerman once the week that news broke according to media monitoring service TV Eyes.

    Read more: MSNBC Primetime Makes Zero Mentions Of Trayvon Martin Case After Pro-Zimmerman Evidence Surfaces | Mediaite
     
  6. BlueMason

    BlueMason Audaces fortuna juvat

    ..I still fail to understand how it can be self defense when he was advised to stay in his car.. Zimmerman's actions caused the end result - had he followed directions and used common sense (wait for police) then this would never have made the news.
     
  7. jam937

    jam937 New Member

    He was never told to stay in his car. Zimmerman was not in his car when a dispatcher told him they did not need him to follow Martin. Zimmerman verbally acknowledged this request in the 911 recording and was making arrangements to meet police.

    How can you honestly say Zimmerman's action caused the end result? We don't know all the evidence yet. You are believing what you read in the main stream media and not the facts as we know them thus far.
     
  8. friendorfoe

    friendorfoe Active Member

    BlueMason... deadly force has clear legal guidelines and limitations around its use. Even if Zimmerman had broken the law and let's say punched Martin (I'm being extreme here) and Martin counterattacked and attempted to kill Zimmerman by slamming his head into the ground repeatedly (origination of deadly conduct) and Zimmerman shot and killed him in the act it would still be self defense. The reason is the point at which the fight became a deadly encounter with the definition of conduct likely to result in serious bodily injury or death is when deadly conduct began and may be countered. At the point deadly conduct took place, countering deadly conduct may be used in self defense legally.

    We had a recent murder case in Texas where a guy was attacked in a bar by another patron. He was losing the fight so he came up with a knife and was subsequently killed by the attacker. The facts of the case as the jury saw it was that although the attacker is guilty of the initial assault which started the fight, he was innocent of murder since he was forced to defened himself from deadly conduct on the part of the assault victim during the course of the assault as the original assault was not deamed deadly (I think it was a slap or punch which turned into a shoving match where the assault victim was shoved to the floor and came up with a knife).

    That said, in my above fictional example Zimmerman would still likely face assault or aggravated assault charges unless a DA could prove that the initial punch was deadly conduct meeting the above definition.

    Either way as it stands in the facts of the case, Zimmerman had a legal right to be where he was and Martin had a right be where he was. Dispatchers cannot give lawful orders. In fact I'm wondering if even a police officer not present on the scene could give lawful orders but that's another debate.
     
  9. 03310151

    03310151 Active Member

    So, you still don't know anything about the case. Where do you get your news from? By now you know that both CNN and MSNBC both doctored evidence correct? You understand that Zimmerman was pursuing TM and when the dispatcher (not an LE official) said, and I quote "We don't need you to do that" (Follow Martin) GZ then said "OK" and clearly stops his pursuit-you can tell that by actually listening to the unedited recording of the 911 call.

    When a woman gets raped do you blame her for wearing provactive clothing?
     
  10. DLer

    DLer New Member

    The Capias Request dated March 13 states - "The encounter between George Zimmerman and Trayvon Martin was ultimately avoidable by Zimmerman, if Zimmerman had remained in his vehicle and awaited the arrival of law enforcement, or conversely if he had identified himself to Martin as a concerned citizen and initiated dialog in an effort to dispel each party's concern. There is no indication that Trayvon Martin was involved in any criminal activity at the time of the encounter."

    Pages 26-27 of the report
    http://matchbin-assets.s3.amazonaws.com/public/sites/312/assets/69B6_Documents.pdf
     
  11. 03310151

    03310151 Active Member

    Other than being high on an illegal substance. Which of course means nothing in the context of the case.
     
  12. DLer

    DLer New Member

    It is not a certainty that the trace levels found in his system will even be admissible. The toxicology report found the levels to be 1.5 nanograms/ml of THC and 7.3 nanograms/ml of THC-COOH. So it may indeed mean nothing.

    It certainly doesn't excuse in any way the actions of Zimmerman according to the police officer filing the Capias Request which states - "The encounter between George Zimmerman and Trayvon Martin was ultimately avoidable by Zimmerman, if Zimmerman had remained in his vehicle and awaited the arrival of law enforcement, or conversely if he had identified himself to Martin as a concerned citizen and initiated dialog in an effort to dispel each party's concern. There is no indication that Trayvon Martin was involved in any criminal activity at the time of the encounter."
     
  13. friendorfoe

    friendorfoe Active Member

    That statement is speculative at best. How does the author know that if Zimmerman said he was a concerned citizen watching out for his neighborhood Martin would not have been offended by it? As for the rest they could have just as easily written, "if Zimmerman had been at the IHOP eating pancakes at the time of the shooting the deadly encounter would never have occurred". Roll eyes...
     
  14. DLer

    DLer New Member

    The author of the Capias Request is lead homicide detective for Sanford Police Department Christopher Serino. I'm assuming he based his opinion on the evidence he was privy to. Obviously that differs from your opinion based on all of the evidence you were/are privy to.
     
  15. Bruce

    Bruce Moderator

    I don't know how things work in Canada, but in the United States, anyone is free to approach anyone else in a public place and engage them in conversation. If the other person doesn't want to converse with them, they are free to walk away. There is absolutely nothing in the past of Zimmerman to suggest that he did anything else other than approach Martin and ask him what he was doing in the neighborhood. There is, however, evidence (now being ignored by the mainstream media) that it is very likely that Martin reacted violently to that initial encounter.

    If I were walking somewhere at night and was approached by someone claiming to be a neighborhood watch volunteer, I would explain why I was there, and continue on my way. If they tried to physically stop me, I would identify myself as a police officer and tell them to get lost, but if I were a regular citizen, I would call the police myself and wait for their arrival. I wouldn't start throwing haymakers.
     
  16. Maniac Craniac

    Maniac Craniac Moderator Staff Member

    There is evidence that Trayvon Martin was minding his own business when a gun-carrying cop-wannabe who had a violent criminal history and a curious habit of calling the police every time he saw a black male walking around his neighborhood approached him with an unwarranted bone to pick with him ("these f***ing punks") despite the fact that the 911 operator told him that there was "no need to do that."

    The mainstream media may be guilty of bias, but you are putting your own spin on the case, yourself. A little cherry-picking makes it easy for anyone to create any kind of story they so choose. The heart of the bias discussion really should be why some people prefer one story over the other, not whose is the smarter bias.

    I wouldn't believe the person at all. I'd be on high alert, ready to run and would not give any information at all about why I was there. Even if he really was a neighborhood watch volunteer, what right would some overzealous bozo have to be privy to my comings and goings? Why can't I just walk around at night, minding my own business, without being treated like a suspect- especially by some person with some story of his intention that I have no way of confirming and no idea what he has in his pockets nor who awaits me behind the corner?

    As I mentioned, I would have been on guard. I've never been physically threatened like that, so I can't say for a certainty what my adrenaline will drive me to do. I'd prefer to run, since I can outrun most anybody minus competitive sprinters, but I'm sure I would first do whatever was necessary to make room for my departure.

    I don't think you can expect others to act as you would in that same situation. From your previous descriptions of yourself, I gather that you are a much bigger guy than I am. Also, you are an experienced police officer who is trained in how to handle physical altercations who (I suppose) may carry a gun while off-duty. Maybe you also live in a nicer neighborhood and don't have the same expectation that people like me do, that whenever anyone calls out to me in public it is either to sell me something that I do not want or to entrap me and hurt me badly.
     

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