Why do people think public school teachers don't make much money?

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Discussions' started by jam937, Apr 5, 2012.

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  1. StefanM

    StefanM New Member

    Buuuuuut....

    What happens when the parents don't buy the supplies? You aren't legally able to avoid teaching the students without supplies, so you can't really hold a hard line here.

    In inner city schools, it's even worse. You have an overcrowded class with mostly absent parents, and the parents that are involved are often impoverished.
     
  2. 03310151

    03310151 Active Member

    Claim it on your taxes then. Problem solved.

    Do all teachers work in the inner-city?
     
  3. StefanM

    StefanM New Member



    No, not all do, but the inner cities are where the most problems are. The more failure you have in inner city schools, the more crime you will see, period.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 5, 2012
  4. StefanM

    StefanM New Member

    They exist in affluent communities, primarily.
     
  5. jam937

    jam937 New Member

    So let's assume that working conditions and parental involvement need more improvement then pay. This may not be correct but let's just assume it is for a second. In fact, let's just focus on parental involvement. How can this be improved?
     
  6. cookderosa

    cookderosa Resident Chef

    Because a degree holder, even with a masters or doctorate, isn't qualified. If they go through the certification process for alternate entry, they now are too expensive to hire as a new teacher. REAL. Not imagined. Even my brother with his MAT can't change districts, he has almost 20 years and an exceptional educational resume, he's even won teaching awards- he's too expensive. He can't move. He's stuck. If an experienced teacher can't move, the likelihood of a newbie landing a gig is slim.

    Because a non-degree holder, even in culinary or industrial arts isn't qualified. Trade experience, to teach trade skills, is not calculated as it is in the college system. Therefor, a mid-career or retired adult with much to offer would have to go to college and earn an entire 4 year degree from scratch. Wow, not many lining up for that.

    So, as it stands, the BA holder with a degree in "education" and a license simply dominates the system. Interestingly, but probably irrelevant, there is no data to support the improved outcome of students when the teacher has those credentials...but I digress.
     
  7. mcjon77

    mcjon77 Member

    K-12 teaching is a crap job for folks like me who don't like kids. The idea of being surrounded by a bunch of minors 8 hours a day, for 5 days a week would make me want to vomit. Getting a job as a garbage man wold sound VASTLY more appealing. God bless anyone who chooses to do it, because I sure as hell wouldn't.

    The sweetest job I have ever seen is still that of tenured professors at small universities. On a per hour basis, my college professor mom was making more than my surgeon dad. She started teaching with a masters in the '70s and had her PhD paid for, in large part, by the university she was teaching at. Great benefits, TONS of free time. The choice to work more during the summer. To top it off, even in retirement, she gets offers for consulting gigs.

    If I were to ever leave the entrepreneurial lifestyle this is the route I would take.
     
  8. Maniac Craniac

    Maniac Craniac Moderator Staff Member

    Teaching is either the best job in the world or the worst job in the world, depending on whom you ask. I'm not sure if I would ever do it, myself, but the pay would not in any way be a detractor. The average teacher in my area does work more hours than I currently do, but still get MONTHS of time off during the year, a regular paycheck (which I haven't had for most of my adult life), health insurance, guaranteed pension with other retirement plan options, moderate tuition reimbursement and a host of others.

    If I was confident that I could restrain myself from shoving my foot up the rear end of some of the brats that are guaranteed to come my way, I would be all over it.
     
  9. Maniac Craniac

    Maniac Craniac Moderator Staff Member

    In most areas, garbage men do very well for themselves.
     
  10. Randell1234

    Randell1234 Moderator

    I guess I can not see the down-side to that :smoker:
     
  11. Abner

    Abner Well-Known Member

    Yeah, I am with you. One of my jobs while working my way through school at a B&M college was that of a Spanish/English bilingual Instructor for sixth grade children at a public school. I absolutely hated it! I lasted about six months then resigned. I opted to load and unload trailers on the second shift through a temp agency, rather than continue working that teaching job. It worked out for the best, and I swore off any desires to teach academics at that grade level. The only thing I taught after that was martial arts.

    Have a good night!

    Abner :smile:
     
  12. cookderosa

    cookderosa Resident Chef

    I agree with all of you, I wouldn't want to teach other people's children. I barely want to teach my own- and I love them.
     
  13. eilla05

    eilla05 New Member

    Bingo....I have never understood this way of thinking and requirements for teachers. We make teachers at this level have teaching degrees yet we allow teachers at the college level which in some ways to matters more (for lack of a better word) than the earlier years have Masters in their subject or Phd's. I am not saying that early learning is not important because clearly it is but I don't understand the vast difference in what is acceptable at each level when the college level is what is actually preparing these said children/young adults to go out and actually make something of themselves. The vast majority don't graduate high school and go out and start making 60k yearly..no you go to college for that don't you (well most!).

    The alternative teaching way is simply a joke......there needs to be a better way if they want to attract more people into the field.
     
  14. mattbrent

    mattbrent Well-Known Member

    I'm jumping into this discussion late, but as a teacher, I'll throw some tidbits in. Let me just start by saying that after 7 years of teaching high school, I'm hoping this is my last. When I first started I feel like I taught 90% of the time and did paperwork 10% of the time. Now, because of increasing state and federal regulations and requirements, my time allotment has pretty much switched. I have been in more meetings (in which nothing of importance occurred) this year than I know what to do with. I used to dress up, sing and dance for my classes, but now I simply don't have the time for that anymore. I spend about 10 hours at school each day (8 hours plus and hour before and after school) and then about 2 hours each night doing grading and such. I've come the decision that spending time with my own children is far more important to me that helping someone else's children. Perhaps that makes me a bad person, but I like my kids better.

    This thread has mentioned a lot of things. The first was obviously pay. My base pay is $36,500. I get another $2k for having a masters (I don't get squat for the second one) and $2k for being department chair. It's not bad, but when you consider the cost of living for the area I have to live in to teach at the school I work at, my student loans, and supplies I have to buy for my own room, the amount is shameful compared to other professions in this area. To put things in perspective a little, my county ranks 117 out of 132 in pay for teachers in Virginia, and Virginia is ranked anywhere from 25-40th in the nation depending on which average you're looking at. Our benefits are a joke. Mind you, these are the benefits for my county. Each county in Virginia chooses their own. Some states consider teachers state employees, but Virginia does not. We do, however, get state retirement, which at the moment is crap. The government borrowed against the state retirement fund and lost a bunch of money a few years back, so now our fund isn't up to what it should be. If I stay a teacher, I may have to work into my 70's to actually see those retirement benefits.

    Someone mentioned deducting classroom expenses on your taxes. While that's possible, if I spend $1,000 on my classroom (and yes, I have at times... sometimes more...) I don't get that back from the government after my taxes are filed. In other words, it's not an even exchange. I live in one of the wealthiest counties in Virginia, yet the majority of our students live in poverty. The average home costs $273,500. This is HIGHLY skewed because of the number of multimillion dollar homes we have on the river that have been built by wealthy folks who only use them in the summer. On paper we look great, but in reality, it's far from it. Asking a parent to buy supplies is laughable because most of the parents can't afford food. In fact, our elementary school has a program called "Backpack Buddies" in which poor students get food in their backbacks each Friday so they can make it through the weekend without being hungry.

    Educational funding is completely out of whack. Teachers make scraps while paper pushing administrators make six-figure salaries for doing nothing. And because of state regulations, we're adding more and more administrative positions while teaching positions are being cut. In my division we've cut about 25 teaching positions in the past 7 years, with 8 more being cut this year. We have about 100 teachers now in the division. However, our administration has grown. In my first year we had 8 administrators. Now we have 14, and we're adding 2 more. How much impact does a paper pusher have on student achievement?

    I used to love my job. I had some excellent students, and I am seriously thankful for getting to know them. I'm teaching some of them again at the community college, and I even named my son after one of them. However, I just see everything taking a turn for the worst, and I would much rather work as a greeter at Wal-mart (at least people smile when they see them!) than continue teaching. Fortunately, however, my community college is about to have an opening, and I'm doing everything I can to pop into that position. Wish me luck!

    -Matt
     
  15. Abner

    Abner Well-Known Member

    Hang in there Matt. Good luck on that CC position. I will keep my fingers crossed for you!

    Abner :smile:
     
  16. nicholaslewi

    nicholaslewi New Member

    Teachers play an important role in the progress of students.They make more than the private sector and this was per the labor statistics published by the state themselves.
     
  17. jam937

    jam937 New Member

    The average teacher salary, without benefits, in Virginia is $51,903.
    http://www.doe.virginia.gov/teaching/workforce_data/salaries/2010-2011_salary_report.pdf

    Is your county a rural one? Rural counties are usually very poor and bottom onthe list of salary. Urban cities usually have highest pay.

    This is so frustrating. Why can't the government just let teachers teach. People talk about student test scores, but how can they get better if we don't let teachers teach. Again we see working conditions and not pay as a reason for turnover

    I'd like to see some national stats on hours spent by teachers. I've only spoken to 5-6 teachers which isn't enough for any conclusions, but none are spending 12 hours per day.

    Charlottesville High School, Virginia, School Hours 8:55am-3:55pm
    School Hours | Charlottesville City Schools

    Most non-teachers are going to have to work into our 70's. In fact, non-teachers on average have to work much longer before they can retire.

    The purpose of a school should be to teach children not feed them. How many administrators are required at the one school for this program? I'm not a fan of indoor Olympic sized swimming pools or huge football stadiums for schools either.

    Well said.
     
  18. Bruce

    Bruce Moderator

    I have mixed feelings about this. I don't begrudge any public employee making a decent paycheck (I'm one myself), but the negotiating tactics of teacher's unions around here really turn me off sometimes. If my local teacher's union is without a contract for a week, they go on strike and walk off the job....if I did that, I'd be fired.

    Also, having about 4 months of the year off is a pretty sweet deal, in addition to never working nights, weekends, holidays, or when it snows too much. Around here, a senior teacher with a Master's degree takes in about $65k per year, which considering the previous sentence, isn't too shabby. Granted I make more, but then again teachers don't have to strap on a Kevlar vest and 25 pounds of equipment to go to work, and I don't get snow days or summer vacation.
     
  19. cookderosa

    cookderosa Resident Chef

    I DO wish you luck Matt. Having watched your attitude on education change over the past 5 years makes me sad. You were the biggest cheer-leader for public schools. That said, you're right, and you're in the right place. Your kids deserve you :)
     
  20. me again

    me again Well-Known Member

    LOL too funny. :sgrin:
     

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