How much of a difference in a top 25 and top 10?

Discussion in 'Business and MBA degrees' started by BacktotheBooks, Mar 13, 2012.

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  1. BacktotheBooks

    BacktotheBooks New Member

    So, I've been looking at some MBA programs online. I've received some advice here, including some very specific advice to hold off (I have two years in my field).

    I had been telling myself for the longest time that "it's just not feasible to uproot a wife and a kid, stop working, and do an MBA for a year somewhere away from our home." Then I realized that in some ways I was making excuses and that there is a payoff for this.

    I've looked at some one year programs that I'd be interested in that are top notch. Do to family situation, I would probably wait 3 or 4 years before moving off. I'm certain that with a good year of study I could knock out a 725-750 GMAT. The way I look at it the test is just about learning the rules and applying them.

    I like Northwestern because it can be done in 1 year, lands you on average $110k + an average 20kish signing bonus at graduation, and is a top 5 school on some accounts.

    I've also looked at Emory Goizueta B-School which is ranked about 22. It is much closer to my family and my in-laws. The average graduating salary seems to be just a tad under Northwestern's.

    Cornell is ranked 16 and it seems to also be in line with NWestern and Emory in graduating salary.
    Based on the proximity to family, the fact that I want to work in the south anyway, and that it is just a bit cheaper.

    Would the Northwestern MBA open doors at some regional southern financial hubs (Atlanta, Charlotte, Tampa, etc) that the Emory MBA would not?

    What are your thoughts on the Cornell MBA?

    Once you show your ticket into a "top job," does your school even matter after that?

    Thanks.
     
  2. Arch23

    Arch23 New Member

    A specific school's ranking will change as many times as the number of published so called "authoritative" rankings, so I wouldn't use any single ranking as the "be all." In the case of the schools mentioned above, they are all considered top-tier and they all have an excellet reputation, so I don't think it makes such a difference at all whether one is #16 or #22. Prestige is already written all over their names (if that's what you're looking for), so I would go with whichever meets my needs more.
     
  3. ooo

    ooo New Member

    Are average starting salaries right out really... average? Or, could they be inflated?

    Being closer to family to still be in the top tier would be alluring. If you want to work in the south, it might be wise to pick a more southern school. Some people in my poduck town haven't even heard of, say, MIT. Yes, I'm serious. It's sad.
     
  4. AUTiger00

    AUTiger00 New Member

    A few things to consider:
    1. Those average salaries are skewed because the only people reporting are the ones who are happy/content with the jobs they landed. The guy who took a job making $50-$60k likely isn't replying to the survey from the career services office. Also, finance jobs will skew that number upward, but since you want a job in finance you would ideally be someone with a job that is skewing that number upwards.

    2. Graduate programs tend to have a network base that is regional so it's best to attend in the area you want to live. This won't be as true for Northwestern-Kellogg as it is a National brand that is recruited heavily by employers across the country. One thing about Kellogg, their speciallty is marketing, not finance. A lot of their grads are looking for CPG jobs. Cornell-Johnson, is, to a lesser extent, also a national brand because of its membership in the Ivy League. I know a few grads from that school, not very impressed with them to be honest. Emory is a great school, but more of a regional brand. I know a guys that graduated from there (2 year program) last year and he landed a job with a boutique PE firm in Birmingham making a 6 figure salary.

    3. One problem with the 1 yr programs is they don't allow for an internship, which can be huge when you're attempting to transition into a new industry. If you're background isn't in finance and that is what you want to do the one year programs may not be ideal. One way to combat this is to do a "pre-MBA" internship the summer before you begin. These roles aren't typically advertised so you'll need to network your tail off and have a compelling reason why a firm should bring you on board. Typically it's simply offering to do a project with some deliverable the company finds useful.

    4. If you're looking at one year programs, Notee Dame-Mendoza has a solid one. I considered their 2 year program when I was looking. It, like a lt of 1 yr programs, requires that your under grad degree is in a business discipline.

    5. The GMAt is only one component of admissions. If your background isn't strong, i.e.decent grades from a strong undergrad institution, strong letters of Rec, a compelling personal statement, a high GMAT won't do much for you. Even if you score between 720-750 (test is scored in increments of 10) without those other areas you'll be hard pressed to get into Kellogg or Johnson (Emory to a lesser extent). Mind if I inquire about your educational background and work experience?

    6. If for some reason you don't score as highly as you think on the GMAt, another strong school with a 1 yr program is the University of Florida. I know it isn't as prestigious as the others you mentioned or Notre Dame, but may be a good idea for a safety school. If you're willing to go international, University of Oxford-Said has a one year program with a strong reputation for putting people in finance jobs. Just a thought.

    7. School will only matter for that first job then it's performance. What the schools you mentioned do provide is amazing networks that can be beneficial when searching for future opportunities.

    I hope this helps. Best of luck.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 16, 2012
  5. Fortunato

    Fortunato Member

    What AUTiger00 said, plus:

    1. There is absolutely no reason to wait to start your MBA program, except one: the admission cycle for the class of 2014 is pretty much over. You'd be 27 entering school for the class of 2015, which is right about the median age for most top full-time programs. Waiting 3-4 years would just reduce the chance you'd actually go to b-school later on. If you're finding the prospect of uprooting your wife and kid daunting now, imagine how much harder it will be when the kid is in school and you have another one on the way.
    2. You don't need a year to prep for the GMAT. Go to MBA.com, download their free test prep software, and take the first example test. This will give you a baseline, a way to chart your progress. DON'T TAKE THE SECOND TEST YET. Buy (or borrow) several GMAT prep books, but only *read* one. Learn its test strategies, then work through the sample tests in all the books, revising as you go along. Learn what types of questions give you trouble, then revise until they don't give you trouble anymore. After you've done four or five books worth of sample tests (the GMAT Official Guide is a great book to get, because it has *10* sample tests), then take the second test from MBA.com to see how you've improved. Register for and take the exam.
    3. Start working on your application NOW. Figure out who would be good people to get recommendations from. Hint: the more authority your recommenders exercise in their daily lives, the more weight their recommendation will carry. Your friends will probably give you glowing recs, but if they work at a convenience store, their opinion won't have much weight with the Adcom.
    4. Practice writing application essays. Get smart people you know to read and criticize them for you. When you are writing an application essay you need to make it absolutely clear why getting an MBA makes sense for you right now.
    5. Pick the schools you would consider attending, rank them from top to bottom (in terms of fit for you) and apply in the reverse order. You will be a much better applicant after simply finishing a few applications. I applied to six schools, and chronologically, I was dinged by the first two, waitlisted and asked to reapply by the third, got a half tuition scholarship to the fourth, and got full rides with stipend from the last two, with the largest stipend coming from the school I applied to last. Of course, I applied to the schools I most wanted to go to first. ;-)
    6. Apply early. MBA admissions happen in "rounds". Most schools do three per year. R1 apps that get waitlisted usually end up getting in. R2 apps that get waitlisted get asked to reapply. R3 apps don't get waitlisted. If you apply early and don't get in where you want to go, you have time to do backup applications.
    7. Finally, if you're serious about doing a residential full time program, you are on the wrong board. This is a distance ed board, and most commenters here are going to have a serious bias towards executive and distance programs. Heck, I was less than a week from starting an on-campus program myself, and still ended up doing an executive program. You need to be over on BusinessWeek's MBA forums.

    Good luck!
     
  6. BacktotheBooks

    BacktotheBooks New Member

    Thanks for the info guys.

    To answer the background questions:
    BBA in Finance, BBA in Accounting from decent regional university. Probably 3.4 overall, but a 3.8 or better in each set of major classes.

    Worked for a couple years in industrial accounting along with some military reserve duty. I left the accounting gig to go on a deployment where I am in charge of over 40 men working on a particularly unique mission for which we were specially selected. As great as that is, I doubt any adcoms would understand how "special" my military experience is from reading about it on a resume.

    I'd like to move into banking when I return home to get more experience on the finance side, but jobs are tight in that field in my area right now. I'm considering looking for work in operations research or operations management.

    At this point in my career I utterly refuse to do an internship. I've managed people since 18 and I've had real world experience in a technical field. I'd accept just not getting a "top job" before I busted my hump for a fortune 500 company in an internship in my late 20s. Thanks for the heads up there.

    I'll take a look at Notre Dame.

    Great advice all. Thanks again!
     
  7. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member


    I agree, I normally tell my students to expect about 20% less of what the University average is. Many international students have alreay jobs lining up back home at top companies or in the government and they are the first ones to fill those surveys.

    Statistics just give an idea but they are good for decision making. I believe that an MBA is an MBA no matter where you go but the real value of the school are career placement services, coop programs, networking, reputation of the school, etc.
     
  8. AUTiger00

    AUTiger00 New Member

    Two things and I'll bow out:

    1. Your military experience will be highly regarded. All the top schools take several military officers from each branch of the service each year. Don't discount it, Adcoms love that stuff.

    2. Don't think of it as an internship. While the title may be "internship", you could likely call it "consultant" without much push back....and they tend to pay well. Average between $30-$40/ hour. Only begin reaching out to people after you've been admitted. You contact an executive and explain that you're going into a top-tier MBA program like Kellogg and they will sit down with you.
     
  9. major56

    major56 Active Member

  10. BacktotheBooks

    BacktotheBooks New Member

    AUTiger:
    I didn't know they paid like that. I'm not an officer for what it's worth. I'm an enlisted man. I just couldn't stand the thought of going through another "prove yourself/hazing fest" after I already played in the sand at Parris Island. Hopefully we dumb, knuckle dragging, trigger pulling, enlisted men are still viewed favorably. Thanks for the heads up on that.

    Major: I had not considered the C-Q EMBA. Thanks for pointing that out.
     
  11. major56

    major56 Active Member

  12. AUTiger00

    AUTiger00 New Member

    I'm sure experience as an enlisted soldier will still be viewed favorably. And yes, MBA internships pay much better than most think. I made just under $16K for my summer internship and it wasn't in finance. Not bad for 10 weeks of work. I had a classmate that made $25k (though he was in NYC).
     

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