NCCA is it an accredited degree?

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by Cherldworld, Feb 1, 2012.

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  1. kirkhenderson123

    kirkhenderson123 New Member

    I would like to comment on some of the comments I am reading here. I am pursuing state licensure in professional counseling in Louisiana. I have three RA degrees....BA in Christian Studies, MA in General Psychology and MSCE in Counseling and Psychology, so I believe in getting a solid RA degree. The NCCA, however, is not a state-based institution. There is a legitimate expression of counseling theology that is unique to the Church, and will never be expressed in state-licensed counseling offices. There is a spiritual dimension of humanity which traditional secular counseling does not adequately address. The NCCA does a great job at putting together Christian counseling programs that address spiritual issues. There are many Christian churches who have a philosophy of ministry which allows for strictly biblically-based counseling, and an NCCA graduate would be very well equipped. I think that religious organizations have a right to follow their theological persuasions and develop programs that address spiritual need according to their theological point of view. Many of these fine folks simply believe that becoming state-licensed would be a compromise of their beliefs. Any pastor can get proper spiritual equipping to adequately counsel a person biblically. To presume that no church anywhere would hire an NCCA graduate might not be true. There is a place for Christians who do not believe in state licensure to have their own thing apart from the stipulations of the state as it relates to theology, spirituality, and bible in counseling. I do also believe, however, that a Christian who earns an RA degree and does pursue state licensure will have ample, ethical, and appropriate opportunity to express spirituality in his/her counseling practice. The average person not in Academia is not able to distinguish PhD's from Colorado Theological Seminary or Liberty. What is important is that a Christian counselor not misrepresent himself and address only spiritual issues. To call CTS a diploma mill is really short-sighted. In the Christian world, a degree from this institution would go quite far. The teaching is biblically solid, but it certainly is not an RA school. I just think there is plenty of room for faith-based schools to do their thing without calling them diploma mills. Just because the business world may not be excited about such a degree doesn't mean that the school does not have integrity, or that the student will not learn an incredible amount of biblical precedents to help counsel people. NCCA offers a Christian counseling license. it should be viewed as an addendum to state-based licensure, much like the AACC. It communicates to the general public that this person is equipped to deal with faith-based issues.
     
  2. LGFlood

    LGFlood New Member

    Hi Kirk,

    I don't call CTS a diploma mill because it's not RA. I call it a diploma mill because it doesn't have reasonable academic requirements to offer a degree at the particular level. As far as spiritual issues go, I have my MA in Counseling from Liberty. They do a great job integrating spirituality with secular counseling, however, the point is that it is an actual counseling degree. The AACC is a solid organization. NCCA is very deceptive in their practices, such as encouraging their members to place LPC after their names for "Licensed Pastoral Counselor." You and I both know what LPC will mean to others and you and I both know that NCCA can't license counselors. Neither can AACC, and they don't claim to. However there are many Licensed Counselors that belong to AACC and take certificate courses with them to enrich their Christian counseling practice.

    Lance
     
  3. LGFlood

    LGFlood New Member

    You didn't. Sorry if I came across as harsh. It wasnt my intention. But, I certainly am passionate about this area. :)

     
  4. kirkhenderson123

    kirkhenderson123 New Member

    Lance, the NCCA can offer a Christian license. This means something to Christians. I am not arguing about Liberty, it is phenomenal! But yes, putting LPC there is not the right thing to do for sure. Are they being intentionally deceptive? Not really sure about that....
     
  5. kirkhenderson123

    kirkhenderson123 New Member

    Do I think a Christian will be better equipped at Liberty or GCU? Absolutely! But if someone does not want state licensure, NCCA would be good solid biblical training in my opinion.
     
  6. kirkhenderson123

    kirkhenderson123 New Member

    I think an issue here is: as far as licensure goes, is state licensure the only legitimate licensure for counseling?
     
  7. tryzbiak

    tryzbiak New Member

    Colorado Theological Seminary and the NCCA

    When I first saw this thread, my original thought was to forget it and let it go since it was just a rant by someone. The fact is, my name and my seminary have been impugned before. But, I took it to the Lord in prayer. I concluded that there are many
    Christians new in their faith or weak in it and they could be influenced in their future decision making. Therefore, I decided to give a metered and balanced response from my point of view. In these kind of posts, I find that the writer has either never been a student at Colorado Theological Seminary (www.seminary.ws), or, if they had been, they may have completed a single course in their program before disappearing.

    Colorado Theological Seminary (CTS) is still head quartered in Colorado, ably run by our Chancellor. The administration office is in Florida because I am in Florida and I am the administrator. I relocated several years ago to take care of my elderly parents whom have since gone to be with the Lord. I couldn't go back to Colorado if I wanted to since my home is financially underwater. At sixty-five years of age, I am not sure that I am up for another relocation anyway. I will probably retire here in the Sunshine State, like so many others have done.

    Some years ago, while searching for educational material for a new Christian counseling program for the seminary, I met the founder of the National Christian Counseling Association (NCCA), Dr. Arno. I was very impressed by him and his organization, which had been in existence for over thirty years and placed over three thousand Christian counselors in the field. I took a few courses to get a better feel for the course work and was impressed enough to complete the requirements for a Ph.D. That education changed my life. Additionally, it gave me the in depth knowledge to assist in prospective student inquiries and for me to be a resource for my adjunct professors. Previously, I have received degrees from the College of Emporia, Webster
    University and Florida Theological Seminary. I have also attended New Mexico State University, Golden Gate University and Georgetown University.

    As with all of our course work, the NCCA material is robust, comprehensive and time tested. In addition, NCCA exams must be proctored. Believe me, without concentrated study, you will not pass the exams. Since co-founding the seminary fourteen years ago, we have never had anyone graduate with a degree in four months. Students in a certificate program don't do it. There is rigor in all of our work so that students will be prepared to be a positive influence in the Kingdom and prepared to lead and counsel His flock. Integrity is the key.

    Many students enroll to find that there is work involved in completing a course with CTS. Many soon evaporate into the ether of space, or withdraw for what seem to be very good reasons. I suspect they find another seminary where they can earn a degree in four months or so.

    I hope the NCCA is making some money. We purchase some of their material. CTS is affordable, but not cheap. You can't conduct Kingdom business and not make enough money to sustain yourself. We essentially do not receive donations and survive year after year on the excess of our low margins. I am still determining where all the money is that people keep talking about.

    There are many Christian seminaries and bible colleges in the country. If you desire to go to one sanctioned by the government, do so with my blessing. If you are raising a family and on limited funds, consider a school such as ours which is affordable, credible and accessible.

    If you are reading this and contemplating where to receive your education, let me give you some advice. First, evaluate your motives for earning your degree. Second, take it to the Lord in prayer. If you have learned anything, I hope it is that if you want a cheap, easily attained degree, you will now know where and where not to acquire one.

    Be Blessed,

    Gary Tryzbiak
     
  8. kirkhenderson123

    kirkhenderson123 New Member

    Colorado Theological Seminary

    Dr. Gary,

    Thanks so much for your contribution. I want to go on record here by saying that I believe in the mission, work, and product that CTS offers its students. I have done pastoral counseling for years and use Dr. Arno's profile with many people. Your seminary has a legitimate and respected place in Christian education. I have investigated your seminary many times and have been impressed with what you offer. Christians working in ministry today would be thoroughly equipped by attending your seminary. Blessings to you...

    Kirk Henderson
    BA, Grand Canyon University
    MA, University of the Rockies
    MSCE, University of West Alabama
     
  9. RAM PhD

    RAM PhD Member

    You have addressed two different issues here, Lance. Let me respond to both.

    First, a quick perusal of the CTS website should confirm your position that CTS "doesn't have reasonable academic requirements to offer a degree at the particular level." Consider the CTS Doctor of Theology that may be obtained by completing 11 courses. The dissertation is not the standard scholarly work required at this level, but a compilation of APS case studies. And what of the Second PhD in Clinical Pastoral Counseling for those who have already obtained one doctorate. This second PhD can be obtained by completing four courses and no dissertation. What? No dissertation? The dissertation is what defines a legitimate doctoral program.

    Second, there is no comparison between AACC and NCCA. The former is by far the most stellar of the two. And yes, there is--shall we say--questionable practices in promoting the use of letters after one's name.
     
  10. kirkhenderson123

    kirkhenderson123 New Member

    RAM,

    I would respectfully submit the possibility that you are overlooking a couple of very important things. First, if you are talking about ATS or RA accreditation as the standard by which you are measuring the value of the degrees at CTS, then standard of comparison, that would be true. My career path requires an RA PhD and this is part of the reason I have not signed up at CTS. However, if you are measuring the validity of their degrees by sheer virtue of biblical content and theological value to the student, as well as value to the church ministry career path, I would say you are wrong in your assessment. These degrees enrich the student's understanding of scripture and counseling from a biblical perspective. I am a Board Certified Christian Counselor through the AACC, so I do believe AACC has an awesome program. But even AACC is not RA accredited! I would just like to say (again very respectfully) that unless you have a degree in Christian studies (which I do), a career in Christian ministry (which I have for a number of years), or some background in theology (which you may), you may not be qualified to assess the theological or Christian ministry career-related value of these degrees.
     
  11. RAM PhD

    RAM PhD Member

    Hi Kirk,

    Thank you for your courteous response. Please allow me to address your various comments.

    First, yes, the standard by which I am measuring CTS is regional accreditation. National (ATS, ABHE, TRACS or DETC) accreditation is an asset in that CHEA/USDOE recognizes the accreditors, but RA is the norm.

    Second, I understand that neither AACC or NCCA hold RA status. Neither would qualify in that they are organizations and not academic institutions. The difference in the two is that AACC encourages legitimately accredited degrees, many of the persons within the AACC administration, board, etc., hold tenured faculty positions at RA schools. Many/most are involved in the field of counseling, whether in terms of a professional practice or in a chaplaincy/pastoral role. NCCA, on the other hand, encourages/promotes degrees from its own schools, none of which hold RA status. As Lance stated, there is confusion over the use certain professional designations (e.g., LPC, etc.), which, from all appearances, sends the message of questionable ethics. I don't questions the motive/sincerity of Arno or NCCA, or of the many people who have associated with the organization. They may indeed have the best of intentions. However, as we both know, good intentions are not the equivalent of legitimacy of credibility. Also, NCCA's association with ACI is enough to question their integrity.

    Third, for the most part unaccredited schools in the USA actually do a disservice to the field of study, their students, and those whom their graduates will engage. This is especially true of those schools that offer graduate and doctoral programs. Since there is no standard of oversight (legitimate accreditation), and since many of their faculty (sometimes all the faculty) hold unaccredited degrees themselves, the rigor and substance of their degree programs range from blatant degree mills, to sincere but substandard attempts at providing theological training, to an extremely small group (2-3%) of schools that may offer RA equivalent programs, yet the lack of accreditation severely limits the utility of the degree.

    Fourth, I commend you for your association with AACC and your pursuit of RA credentials. May this path take you far in life, your profession and ministry.
     
  12. cofflehack

    cofflehack Member

    If the people they hire do not have great credentials and degree, do you think they could handle counseling?
     
  13. PilgrimPastor

    PilgrimPastor New Member

    I know the folks at Pillsbury. I know someone with degrees from Pillsbury in Christian Counseling. If you intend to practice professionally & receive insurances etc. this may not be a great choice for you. Liberty or another accredited program may be a better choice. These programs provide a measure of credibility and recognition and licensure which is fully acceptable in many church and religious counseling environments but if you wish to receive insurances then it may not be a great choice. Much of the curriculum they use is based on American Association of Christian counselors continuing education credits Minnie licensed AACC counselors use this material for continuing education and many of those counselors are licensed professional counselors or licensed marriage and family therapist etc. if you'd like to talk to me more about it I can answer your questions they have raise their prices significantly in the last years so it really is something you have to look at if it's going to meet your specific needs if you're going to counsel strictly on the level of helping people within the churches to grow in discipleship I don't work through personal problems from a purely biblical and Christian counseling perspective than this material is very good for equipping a person for that.

    If you intend to counsel strictly within the churches the curriculum is very helpful for preparing and equipping you for that covering a wide range of Christian counseling topics however if you wish to receive insurances and salon then this may not be the best program for you.

    Pillsbury has raise their prices summon the last few years although again the curriculum is very substantive and does a very adequate job of preparing one for Christian counseling.

    Let me know if you have any specific questions and like I said I'm very familiar with their programs content of their material and with their faculty and staff.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 15, 2013
  14. PilgrimPastor

    PilgrimPastor New Member

    There is a lot of anecdotal information in this thread. The Arno profile system, upon which the NCCA curriculum is based is distinctively spiritual & of a type that would be very unlikely to be accepted by any accrediting agency in the mainstream (regional, ATS, or national). It's the basis for this method of counseling. The same could be said for noetic counseling.

    Interestingly enough, the AACC curriculum which is utilized by Pillsbury in these programs as well is similar to that which is used at Liberty University, devoted by Tim Clinton who happens to shape & influence a great deal of the counseling perspective there as well.

    Pillsbury faculty & staff are absolutely legitimate folks. And they are careful to advise students as to the utility of the degrees and nature if the degrees. I love it when folks go on the offensive against a certain credential as though that credential guarantees anything. It , like any other, is a vetting process. Some vetting is better than others but the comments in this thread are far too sweeping.
     
  15. PilgrimPastor

    PilgrimPastor New Member

    Many not Minnie... I typed that via voice recognition software... Someone needs to properly accredit that... ;)
     
  16. RAM PhD

    RAM PhD Member

    They do, Pilgrim. The National Accrediting Association of Voice Recognition Technology (NAAVRT) is a very distinguished organization geared totally toward voice recognition software and technology, teleprompter excellence, and the like. Unfortunately, your particular software brand must be accredited by an accreditation mill. :grin:
     
  17. PilgrimPastor

    PilgrimPastor New Member

    MUST be... :dunno:
     
  18. NCCA_Admin

    NCCA_Admin New Member

    NCCA Program

    Happy New Year!

    The NCCA training, certification and credentialing program, equips those called by God to serve in the ministry of counseling. That service may be in full-time ministry, part-time ministry or allow candidates to serve as a lay counselor in their church or other outreach ministry. The counseling model NCCA utilizes in our curriculum, the APS, provides a "faith-based" approach to human behavior, based on the biblical teaching that we are created by God, in His Image, for His Glory. Our program is unique, in that we had the ability to maintain our "faith centered" approach, for over 35 years, while honoring the mission to equip those God calls to ministry. If we can provide additional clarity on what NCCA is and what NCCA is not, please do not hesitate to reach to us. Thank you to the creators of this website, for creating a forum that allows feedback.

    Sincerely,

    Steve Baran
    As President, on behalf of the NCCA
    Board of Directors


     
  19. Steve Levicoff

    Steve Levicoff Well-Known Member

    I’m fascinated that the he-who-is of NCCA has resurrected a two-year-old thread to bring us his apologia for this mill, especially since I had not previously seen this thread.

    Here’s what I wrote about NCCA in the last edition of Name It & Frame It (1994):

    One point of curiosity: I note that the writer of the last post, Steve Baran, identifies himself as NCCA’s president. The name that appeared earlier in this thread is Richard Arno, who was the founder of NCCA and its president at the time I wrote about them. Has Richard gone to that great credential mill in the sky?
     
  20. NCCA_Admin

    NCCA_Admin New Member

    NCCA Clarification

    Good afternoon Steve Levicoff,

    Dr. Richard Arno was the founder of the NCCA and served as President until he retired in December of 2004 We were asked by one of our longtime members to provide clarification to the mis-information in the thread, which is the reason we responded. Should you have any questions about the NCCA, I would be happy to make time in my schedule, to personally speak with you.

    Have a great day in the Lord,

    Steve Baran
     

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