NCU was More Rigorous than California State University

Notice that the NCU PhD applicant was rejected because of the lack of publications and not because the degree itself

"We recently had an applicant apply for a position with a PhD from NorthCentral University. We rejected the application because said applicant had no publications"

I realize that is very difficult to ask a part time PhD to publish on top of the dissertation but a PhD with no publications has little credibility regardless of the place of study.
If a PhD from NCU has a good record of publications and research grants, there is no reason to believe that the degree is substandard.

 

Alright, who are you and what have you done with the "real" RFValve????? :tongue:

I do agree with you on this. I guess the publication seperates those that finish a degree and those that want to continue to contribute and search to add to the body of knowledge. My next goal should be (I guess) to publish in a journal :thinking:

 

Unfortunately, there is also bias when it comes to journals. I have only been in one tenure track hiring committee and my colleagues would ignore any resume with publications from journals they did not know. They first looked at the degree and then at publications, if the degree was from an unknown school but publications were good, they would put the resume in the second pile (the second round pile).

I think it is safe to say that for those aiming to work at research Universities, there is no shortcut, you need to spend the time and work with established researchers that can help you to build your resume (this means full time B&M PhDs).

For those interested in working at teaching and career oriented schools, I believe teaching and working experience is more critical, most of these positions do not require a doctorate so the online Phd can be seen as a plus.

To be fair, the lack of publication records is not only for NCU graduates. There are many programs around the word that would grant a PhD degree even if the holder does not have publications.

Bashing a school or their graduates is not going to change anything. It is better to be positive and try to balance the lack of credibility with good performance.

 

Thank you RFValve. :You_Rock_Emoticon:

 

It's not just that....

Look at the response later in the same thread when the OP found out that NCU was a for-profit distance university:

 

Now we are seeing the real motivation of some people who bash online learning. Not all, but some.

 

Of course, it's manufactured scarcity.

It's the same reason monopolies stay in business by stifling competition.

It's not just the belief that online modalities are inferior (and they have some justification here); it's the desire to prevent alternatives from becoming the norm.

And, honestly, I don't blame them. What we have seen with online programs is a slavish reliance on adjunct faculty. That doesn't bode well for traditional academics. In the for-profit sector this is particularly egregious. Although some responsible actors exist, investors don't typically reward things like hiring full-time faculty for research, granting tenure, limiting course loads, etc. If investors get more profit from using adjuncts, adjuncts will be used frequently.

I do think, however, that universities with online programs do need to address some of these issues, but I doubt it will make a difference. IMO, what we need to do is to reform regional accreditation to eliminate or to reduce these practices. If the accreditation agencies require it, it will happen because accreditation is the key to the cash.

 

Here is a rather lowbrow comparison: As surfers, we are terribly annoyed by the guys who ride the stand-up paddle surfboards in the surf with us. They can cover more ground, they can see the waves sooner than we can, they can catch the waves sooner than we can and they tend to get all of the good waves. They are interlopers who have found a new way to do what we have always done and they are shouldering in on our territory. They can't quite perform the maneuvers we can and can't usually handle the really big surf, but they are moving in on our territory.

I wonder if the the kind traditional degree holders you mention are worried that something similar will happen. I don't think it will anytime soon because many things will have to slowly change, but I wonder if some people are worried that people with degrees earned online are moving in on their territory. Especially, as RFValve mentions, if the online degree holder is able to publish in some recognized journals.

 

One of the main issues is competition in the academic world. I don't know in the US, but according to statistics Canada, only 20% of the Canadian PhDs find a full time job in academia.

Many people that lurk the Chronicle are prospect academics and see online PhDs as a threat as they now have to compete for the few jobs with more people. By bashing them, they hope that they destroy their credibility.

 

Of course, there are many talented individuals that do a fantastic job in academia but they cannot forward because the lack of doctorate. The PhD enables more people to compete and of course this is not something that pleases everyone.

 

I agree on all counts. I have had 5 articles in trade mags, 4 self-publishing training guides, and 4 articles in a corporate newsletter published. I am torn between shooting for the Journal of Management (or something like that) and the Harvard Business Review. Any suggestions on a mid-level journal? I certainly do not want it in the UoP created journal or something like that, of course I am assuming that has little credibility in academic circles.

 

Randell,

I use the ERA journal list below, this is what the Australian government recognizes from Faculty at Australian Universities. They use a A, B and C classification. I normally publish in C journals as I don't have a huge research budget with graduate assistants. A journals are normally for faculty with an established reputation and so B journals. If you are a beginner, you should aim for C journals.


Don't give up if you get few rejections at the beginning as it takes time to learn how to publish.

http://www.arc.gov.au/xls/ERA2010_journal_title_list.xls

 

This is a new one but it looks like now they don't use ranks

http://www.arc.gov.au/xls/era12/ERA2012JournalList.xls

 

For some reason I can not get it to download. Never mind - I downloaded it with Firefox - it worked better,

 

I wouldn't place too much faith in the opinions of people with screen names like "euro_trash" and "midtownlageek".

 

I actually use the same list as RFValve. I added tabs so I could search by discipline.

In my field the ranking is more useful for general journals rather than field specific ones. There are a couple ranked as C journals that are as respectable in the field as the B journals. The A (and the list I work from also has A*, perhaps it's time to update) are the top journals. One thing I've found is that even if you aren't an established academic you can publish in the A journals (in your field and in the specialized journals for that field) if you have a good CV (in my sub speciality the A journals don't do blind review) and an interesting/unusual article.

 

Actually, the new list doesn't have classification. This is a great list as this is what the Australian government accepts as credible journals.

There are some lists also that discipline specific that are published by different associations but this a good start for those interesting in publishing.

Once you have a established publication record, the degree granting institution is secondary.

 

I think this is largerly true. I look at is kind of as an equation, the "lower" your doctorate, the more you have to put on the other side to balance it. I will hopefully someday finish my doctorate at a respectable Canadian research university. If I wanted to land a tenure track job (not likely, but if) I would be competing against applicants with superior academic qualifications. The main way I could balance that would be through publications.

Like many of us here I have thought about doing more degrees, but in terms of gaining academic employment within my field I've concluded that another degree would not be useful unless it was from a truly top school (ie Harvard, Yale, Oxford, Cambridge, Columbia...) Barring that, I would be much better publishing. I could probably write 10 academic articles in the amount of time that I would spend doing another masters degree.

 

Randell,

Certainly not on par with HBR or JOM, however, the International Journal of Management, Business, and Administration (e.g., National Forum Journals) may perhaps be of some importance as regards your article publication interests (?). The founder and Editor-in-Chief is Dr. William Kristonis; currently Professor of Educational Leadership at Prairie View A&M University National Forum Journals.

National Forum Journals

Disclosure: Dr. Kristonis was one of my professors for one course during my M.Ed. student days at Prairie View A&M University. Other than this, I have no financial or sponsorship interest in National Forum Journals or any of its subsidiary publication journals whatsoever.

 

I'm glad we got that cleared up, we were planning on calling in a few special agents to launch a covert, special investigation but now I think we can at least stop the wire taps. :smile: