Modern Warriors

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Discussions' started by Abner, Dec 2, 2011.

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  1. Abner

    Abner Well-Known Member

  2. 03310151

    03310151 Active Member

    The only warriors in there are the ones that actually fight. The other's are all artists. There's nothing martial about twirling batons or back flips into splits or old people stretching to improve their health (not that there is anything wrong with those things, but they do not a warrior make).

    I'm glad they talk about diversification in MA. Another gift to the Martial Arts world from American's. Sticking to one singular style (when it comes to practical application of fighting) is restrictive and not a good strategy.

    Seems like a interesting movie but still looks to appeal to 70's and 80's TMA fans and not people who actually test their skills in (controlled) environments.
     
  3. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator

    Abner, do you know anything about Bando?
     
  4. Abner

    Abner Well-Known Member

    Hi Kizmet,

    I have not formally studied Burmese/American Bando, but I have run across some Bando practioners. They seem to have powerful kick boxing type kicks designed to "take the legs out". They also hold their hands and fists up similar to Thai boxers, and like to use nasty elbow strikes. From what I can remember, they also have weapons ranging from the bo staff, short sticks and bladed weapons.

    Bando also includes internal systems integration consisting of a Qigong like art. I think the last Bando guy I ran into stated they also practice Yoga techinques for dynamic flexiblity.

    All in all, the use of low leg breaking kicks and sweeps combined with elbow strikes makes this quite effective as a martial art.

    Abner
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 2, 2011
  5. Abner

    Abner Well-Known Member


    Yeah, the film gets better around the middle. This trailer cuts off even though it says "full movie".

    Have a good weekend!


    Abner :smile:
     
  6. HikaruBr

    HikaruBr Member

    Excuse me? American gift to the world??? 0_o

    Mixed Martial Arts is pretty much a Brazilian invention. We had "Vale-Tudo"s in Brazil decades before UFC in the States. The UFC (and thus the MMA popularity in the US and the world) was created by the Royce family (they are Brazilians) as a way of bringing the vale-tudo concept to a broader audience.

    If we want to be precise, there were also some Mixed Martial Arts contests in Asia, like Shooto in Japan, before the UFC (but the Brazilian Vale Tudo contests predates them).

    Americans created a lot of wonderful things - but Mixed Martial Arts is not one of them.
     
  7. raristud

    raristud Member

    Actually one of the first mixed martial arts was founded by the Ancient Greeks. The martial art is known as Pankration. Yes the Gracie family was instrumental in spreading mixed martial arts throughout the US. So was Bruce Lee with the founding of Jeet Kune Do. Vale Tudo was not the only mixed martial to be brought to the US during the 70s. Kuk Sool Won shares in that honor, having been established in the US during the early 1970s.

    Ancient Sports: Pankration
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 4, 2011
  8. raristud

    raristud Member

    Urquidez da man!
     
  9. HikaruBr

    HikaruBr Member

    I know about Pankration, but I didn't know about about Kuk Sool Won. Very interesting. :)

    But note that I did cite Shooto and implied the existence of other asian MMA precursors, not just Brazilian Vale-Tudo.

    I just thought beyond silly to say that MMA was an "American gift" to the world. I wouldn't say that was a "Brazilian (or Asian) gift to the world" either, because it was a gradual evolution from so many styles and countries - but if someone will make this claim, Brazilians (and Asians) have more rights to it, because they were doing it first.
     
  10. 03310151

    03310151 Active Member

    Lineage wars are perhaps the most nauseating thing about any discussion on MA's. My art is older than your art, we trace our history back to blah-blah-blah. What works? That's what is most interesting to me.

    I know that most people do MA's for other things than actually fighting. I respect that and may have mentioned that my 80 year old Mom has been doing Tai Chi for over 20 years now. She loves it and it has lasting health benefits for her. When she was here over Thanksgiving we walked all the monuments in DC and she kept pace just fine, I was astonished but she credits her diet and Tai Chi training.

    My focus was always on the more Martial aspects of the fighting arts. I don't buy into mythology though, so I can appear anti Traditional MA but I'm not. I do often mock the stories of TMA's but still respect anyone who trains their body and mind in just about anyway.

    I'm glad that you discount the American contributions to the Martial Arts world, my post may have been offensive by saying American MMA is a gift to the world, but oh well we all cheer lead for our favorites. I like seeing changes and the fact remains that there has been a cosmic shift in how people view MA's over the past couple of decades. Whoever you want to have the credit is moot. Everyone is changing and growing. These are interesting time for anyone with an interest in MA, TMA, MMA, fighting and self defense.

    Train on!
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 5, 2011
  11. friendorfoe

    friendorfoe Active Member

    Just a couple of thoughts...as pointed out earlier, warriors make "war" as in killing folks who are trying to kill you, etc. Most of today's warriors wear combat boots and 100 pounds of gear. Fairbairn and Sykes were something of warrior martial artists but other than them I'm not real sure who else influences military hand to hand or what mojo (art) they use if any.

    Also a thought, I'm thinking the concept of MMA was probably invented by the first guy who figured out that a fight doesn't go according to plan. As for turning it into a world recognized, multimillion dollar, high stakes, celebrity creating business/sport...yeah, I think America may have the edge on Brazil there. :)
     
  12. HikaruBr

    HikaruBr Member

    It's amazing how you distorted everything I said. in no part of my message I discounted American contributions to the Martial Arts world - I just said that your assertion that Mixed Martial Arts is a "American gift to the world" is wrong. And IT IS WRONG. Brazilians and Asian were mixing fighting styles way before Americans did it. That's just a fact.

    So, you give a wrong credit to your country and then someone points that you're wrong, and now whoever gets credit doesn't really matter...lol

    But, sincerely, I'm not sure if you really follow the MMA world - if you did you'd know that after the USA, Brazil is the country with the biggest number of top UFC fighters.

    The American fighters are great and the UFC only took off as a real sport after Dana White took control of it. But that doesn't change the fact that MMA was not a American creation and the UFC was, basically, a American rebrand of Brazilian "Vale Tudo" contests, brought to the USA by the Gracie family.

    Think like this:

    Brazil has, by far, the best soccer team and players in the world. No one even come close in numbers of World Cups wins. But you'll never hear a Brazilian saying that soccer is "a Brazilian gift to the world" because we know the sport was created in England, not in Brazil.

    Give credit were credit is due.
     
  13. HikaruBr

    HikaruBr Member

    To say that MMA it's "a American gift to the world" implies that it was a American creation. It was not. And, more specifically, the UFC was created by the Gracie family.

    I'm not talking about who made a big business out of it or not. It's obvious that Dana White was the responsible for making the UFC really big - but he didn't invented it.

    Nintendo was the company that really made video-games a worldwide phenomenon - but that doesn't mean that video-games are a japanese creation. it's an American creation.

    Also, see my comparison with Soccer-Brazil-England in my post above.
     
  14. Messdiener

    Messdiener Active Member

    If I may interrupt for a brief moment...

    I find it somewhat amusing that this thread has the potential to get much more heated than the one on affirmative action.

    That is all.
     
  15. friendorfoe

    friendorfoe Active Member

    I'm not disagreeing with you...all I'm saying is that before it became a form of accessible entertainment the world pretty much didn't give a rat's @$$ and the MMA was pretty much a subculture of young men rolling around on dojo mats for little to nothing.
     
  16. 03310151

    03310151 Active Member

    That is not what is implied, that is how you took it. You've been running with it your own interpretation of what I said for a little while now. Americans are contributing to the diversification on MA-fact. It is a gift, just like the gifts from Brazil (absolutely some of the best fighters in MMA-no doubt), Russia, and other countries have also given the MA world-fact. Just like the gift of Judo from the Japanese to the Brazilians.

    Where in my screed did I say only Americans contributed to MMA or that we even invented it? I know how the UFC started I also know how BJJ started too. Everyone stands on the shoulders of Giants.

    We get it, you love your country and are offended by people from America who love thier country too. You're barking up the wrong tree though as I do not apologize for my love of my country. Go talk to a liberal if you want someone to prostrate themselves and apologize for liking the US.

    Good grief, you're like a pit bull sinking it's teeth into something and won't let it go. Here's a hint though: You've got the wrong kitten in your mouth.
     
  17. HikaruBr

    HikaruBr Member

    I agree with on that. I'm glad that Dana White took over. But I kind of miss the early UFC with no time limit and almost no rules.
     
  18. HikaruBr

    HikaruBr Member

    Huh, no I don't. I actually love your country too, that's why I'm here :)

    In fact, in Brazil a lot of people don't like me because I'm very pro-USA in a country where the majority is anti-American (even though they consume American pop culture like crazy - hypocrites, I know...).

    If you didn't mean to imply that in your post, then your message was bad phrased, that's all.

    Let's go back to the original topic.

    P.S. And I'm curious why do you assume I'm a liberal? I'm as libertarian as you can get.
     
  19. raristud

    raristud Member

    Brazil has an interesting history tied to the Martial Arts. Study Capoeira and one can learn about when, how, and why African slaves developed, practiced, and used Capoeira as self defense during times of war and slavery. I'm not sure if you watched this fight, but here is a link to Marcus Vinicius, a Capoeira practitioner, in a match against an MMA fighter. I believe Vinicius also practices BJJ. There are more examples of Capoeira fighters, but I found this match interesting.

    Marcus vinicios Axe Capoeira vale tudo!! - YouTube
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 12, 2011
  20. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Having grown up studying Shorin-Ryu in the late '60's and early '70's as a young boy, I can safely say that the karate fighters (not artists) we admired in the dojo were Chuck Norris, Bill Wallace, Joe Lewis, and Benny Urquidez. Champions (and fighters) all. Bruce Lee was an incredible teacher, but we didn't admire him as much as those who fought in (and won) tournaments. Bill "Superfoot" Wallace was especially amazing. He effectively fought with only one kicking leg, yet you could not stop it. At all. And Joe Lewis, the PKA heavyweight champion, beat them all. Sure, Chuck Norris was great (really great), but he had equals in the four I mentioned above.
     

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