California allows college aid to illegal immigrants

Illegals, if you can hear me, please go back home and stop breaking our laws. I promise I won't come into your country illegally if you don't come into mine illegally.

 

So, you have someone who you have no idea what their true identity/address is, breaking the law, and you're not going to arrest? You and I were trained polar opposites, my friend. If you can't establish true identity/address (about 99% of illegals), always make the arrest to get their picture/prints into the system. For all I know, the guy could be wanted for murder in (insert state/country here).

I spent some time at FLETC, as a matter of fact, I still have a Pam's drink glass in my cupboard.

Then you would be in violation of the law, since an arrest warrant is an ORDER from a judge that any police officer is obiligated by law to enforce. I KNOW they teach that at FLETC, so what's your excuse for choosing to not follow a judge's order?

What?

I ask again, what part about ILLEGAL do you not understand?

Sodomy impacts me exactly zero percent. Consenting adults can do whatever the Hell they want to behind closed doors, because it has absolutely no bearing on me. Consenting adults can stick anything into any orifice they want, and as long as I don't have to see/watch it, I couldn't possibly care less, because it has no impact on my life.

However, illegal criminal aliens cost me and the country billions and billions of dollars every year, which means my taxes go up, so the government gets to confiscate more of my earnings each year. That DOES impact me, and it means I either have to deny my children, or work even MORE overtime and details to make ends meet, as if I don't have enough on my plate right now.

Comparing uniformed federal police to local police is like comparing apples to moonrocks. No offense, but municipal police deal with about 90% more crap than the uniformed feds so. I know this because I have friends in the federal ranks who feel like the Maytag Repairman, while some nights I don't even get a dinner break.

I'll make it really simple for you, sport. Call 617-479-1212 and leave a message with your phone number to have Officer Bruce Tait call you back, and I'll call you back. If that isn't enough proof, I don't know what to tell you.

We can't serve federal warrants (I thought you would know that), but if an illegal alien we arrest pops on an ICE warrant, they fax over a detainer, so they're held until the next court day, when ICE comes and gets them.

We're not asked or even empowered to enforce federal law, so I have no idea where that is coming from.

 

Illegal Immigrants Cost U.S. $100 Billion per Year, and $10.1 Billion for California alone. I don't see any good thing about having illegal immigrants and their children in this country.

 

It's not really illegal anymore, though. The anti-sodomy laws were invalidated by Lawrence v. Texas in 2003.

 

TekMan,
Thanks for breaking it down to simple economics. I see it as "wrong is wrong".

 

So three points of clarification... if you have a fugitive, say on the FBI's most wanted list even if for federal crimes, you do not arrest the person because the warrant is federal?

Second I said I would detain someone on any active warrant , even a misdemeanor but if I have a traffic ticket warrant in Oklahoma and I’m in San Antonio…do you think we’re going to drive him to Oklahoma on a municipal warrant? If they don’t want to come get him, that’s on them, and no that’s not against the law. Now if the local municipality police types want to come pick him up for Oklahoma, that’ll work too, or we could transport to the local jail and transfer the arrest. Felony warrants are handled differently but there will still be a transfer of arrest for state issued warrants. We served/enforced all federal warrants bar none. Either way this particular portion of the argument is a red herring, a pissing match and off topic…I think we both know how to handle warrants. Back to my point...having a warrant is not the same as being in the country illegally, period. If it were you would have the authority to enforce it, which thankfully, you do not.

Third, I said I would not arrest someone for being an illegal alien…not that I would not arrest someone I could not identify who had committed a crime, you must have misread what I wrote or are putting words in my mouth. But let me ask you this…where you are from if you are conducting a field interview (no crime necessarily) and the person with which you are speaking with cannot produce a state or government issued ID…do you arrest that person? Is that a state law you are enforcing there?

As for enforcing federal law I said (if you'll read carefully) that it is done so even if under redundant state law (for example federal drug laws and state laws mirroring each other) meaning that at least in part you guys enforce federal law if simply through proxy under state law. Yeah I know…you’re really enforcing state law but you get the point. However when it comes to passing similar state legislation mirroring our current federal law, states like Arizona get taken to the Supreme Court by the federal government. What? That’s not funny (or peculiar) to you?

I am amazed that ICE comes and picks up every illegal you get your hands on in jail (or is it just the ones with warrants?). Wow…you think you could put a word in with those guys for the same level of service here in the border states?

As for calling you up…use your mod access and remove your number before someone posts it on craigslist with free iphones or something. I was throwing that credibility dig out there because you threw one at me. A little tit for tat action, I believe you are who you say you are, I have no reason to think otherwise.

Lastly a point we can agree on is that townie cops and feds have virtually nothing in common. I’ve done uniformed services which CAN be a lot like the Maytag repair man (depending upon where you are, your agency, etc.), but then I’ve also done intelligence work (liaison, task force, etc), investigations (to include internal affairs), been a trainer and personal protection work (secret squirrels type stuff). Some was fun, some wasn’t, some busy, some not. In some cases I worked closely with townies in other cases I rarely saw one. In no circumstances did I deal with the general public as much as townies do and so running down misdemeanor was not high on the list of our priorities (or on the radar for that matter) so how we handled them is probably much different than municipal cops. Some of what I did took a lot of analysis and/or discretion and in some cases I had no discretion at all. Either way I spent the better part of a decade in law enforcement and have never written a jay walking citation (a statistic I am proud of).

I have not contradicted myself nor been backed into a logical corner. You have not discredited me by trying to catch me saying I violated the law as a cop…so I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree. You’ll hopefully note that I have not questioned your professionalism though publishing your phone number on an internet forum was “odd”, nor have I made dismissive challenges like “what part of illegal don’t you understand” a question I find ironic from a man who admittedly selectively enforces or wants to enforce “some” laws but not others. Maybe you just want the right to enforce immigration because you feel like a victim. Maybe you want some payback. Maybe this is why the feds don’t want states taking immigration matters into their own hands…God only knows how that would turn out.

Also does anyone else reading this thread find it ironic that a tax funded employee is complaining about the amount of taxes they pay?

 

I believe the point was when it was illegal or if it remained illegal Bruce would not enforce it because there was "no victim" but then (intellectually) contradicted himself saying...well you read it.

 

Only eight years ago? I thought it was a lot longer ago than that.

 

No, it's not. I have total discretion as far as making an arrest, with 2 exceptions; violating a protective order and some obscure election laws that state "shall arrest". All other crimes, including murder, I have the discretion to arrest, or not. Of course I'm going to arrest for murder every time, but the option exists under the law for me to "summons" the defendant, which means no arrest.

No, we don't, since we have no absolutely no power to actually serve a federal warrant. What we do is arrest the suspect for the state crime of being a fugitive from justice on a court warrant, which is always dismissed as soon as the defendant agrees to waive rendition and go back to the state/federal jurisdiction that requested it.

If you think that police agencies even enter traffic warrants into NCIC, never mind that they expect them to be actually served by out-of-state agencies, then you're either delusional, or have absolutely no idea as to how the criminal justice system works in this country.

I have yet to arrest an illegal criminal alien for simply being an illegal criminal alien, because I don't have the authority to do so. I arrest illegal criminal aliems (along with everyone else) for violations of state law and city ordinances. If they pop on an ICE detainer or warrant, then so be it. Not my problem.

As I've stated many times already, I have absolutely, positively no authority whatsoever to enforce ANY federal laws, including immigration laws. If I find someone violating state law or city ordinances that happens to be an illegal criminal alien, I'm going to arrest them if they have no positive ID, then too bad, so sad. Deal with the consequences of your illegal actions.

Did I ever say that ICE comes to pick-up EVERY illegal criminal alien that we arrest? No, I don't believe I did, which is unfortunate, but still true.

Do you think I give a rat's ass what people here think about me or know about me? Don't yout think I would have used a pseudonymn and/or made a more concerted effort to conceal my identity if I really cared about that?

In spite of numerous anonymous death threats from various mill operators, here I am. I've posted nothing here I need to apologize for, and I carry a very powerful firearm everywhere I go, while my wife is also very well schooled (by me) in the use of handguns and long guns.

I'll be fine, trust me.

I believe that was one of my first points.

And in any case, the reality is that those who you so dissmissevly refer to as "townie cops" will often deal with more shit in a single 8-hour shift than a uniformed federal cop will see in thier entire career.

Jaywalking ranks so far down on my list of priorities, I don't even know if I could even issue a citation for it.

If local and state police could enforce federal immigration law, that would put a HUGE dent into the illegal criminal alien problem. I don't need ICE to tell me that the guy I stopped for running a red light who hands me a fake Brazilian license, along with a Brazilian passport that has no visas or entry stamps, is here illegally.

I'll tell you what....I'll compare my arrest and citation numbers to yours (official records through a public records request), and then let's see who is providing the taxpayers more for their money.

Are you game?

I am.

 

Just to be clear we use TCIC and NCIC databases for warrants. The out of state misdemeanor was an illustration of how useless it is to arrest on every single warrant regardless of whether it issuing entity is willing to transport. For example from Dallas to El Paso (still in Texas) is half way to California. It'd be easier to transport to Kansas. Anyhow a transfer of arrest for non-federal warrants is exactly how you guys handle federal warrants but in reverse. (This explanation is for the peanut gallery).

Second it can be argued that unions, especially public service unions, have done more economic damage than any amount of illegal aliens could hope to, especially in the area of pensions. So yeah...I find your "tax victim" argument hilarious since you are in fact a public service union boss.

Also if you want me to divulge personal information to see whose is bigger, well let's just say some of our careers can't take as much bad press as some others. A "very powerful handgun" won't protect anyone from the press...impulse control is important for cops...

And back to that "very powerful handgun" so I'm assuming you carry a wheelgun in .454 Cassull, .480 Ruger or .500 S&W? "Blow a man's head clean off".... you don't use that "are you feeling lucky punk" line ala Dirty Harry do you? Wow... I couldn't do that since I only carried a .40 S&W...but there you have it, I relied on my most important weapon (the mind) more than a gun for protection so it's good to see a man with his priorities straight.

"Thank you and goodnight" all, this thread is "done".

 

I think this is why people have a hard time embracing illegal immigrants in this county, even legal ones at that. You live, work and go to school here yet you still don't consider the US your "Country" do you?

Yes the kids can’t help what their parents do but at some point my legal children have to stop paying the price for the illegal kids.

The local school district just shut down the music programs for the rest of the year but put a bunch of ESL teachers on the payroll. Also the people arguing here are all immigrants or married to immigrants or minorities with illegal family members(they posted it in another forum, just saying what they wrote). Just saying. Until we secure our boarders and provide a better system of immigration in the US, one that allows the country to weed out the criminals, we need to enforce the laws we have.

Let’s get this back on track here ……………

 

B4CZ28, I'm not a immigrant yet. I'm possibly one, but right now I'm still just a (legal) international student (I'm currently in my period of "Optical Practical Training", the time that I'm allowed to work here after my studies).

So, I can't really say the USA is "my country", because it's not, at least not yet (but I do tell everyone that it is my adopted country, even though I'm not sure I'll be able to get a work visa after my OPT. If I don't, I'll have to go back to Brazil). So, for now, the only place that is "my country" is Brazil. But I'd love to call the "Land of the Free and Home of the Brave" my country too.

I gave the example of my country just to be clear that I DO understand the concerns of Americans about immigration because I come from a country of immigrants too and to show that amnesty is not such a big deal like people make it out to be here. If anything, it integrates the illegals and turns them in proper citizens.

And I never said the USA shouldn't enforce it's laws. I just argued for the obvious fact that a person cannot be punished by the acts of his parents. And that not every illegal immigrant committed a crime (because overstaying your Visa is not a crime).

Even if it were, we should have a sense of proportion here. Jaywalking is a crime in some jurisdictions but you don't put people in jail because of that. Likewise, when we talk about illegal immigrants we have to keep in mind that we are talking about people coming here to work and raise there family, not to commit crimes.

Any comparison with killers, drug dealers and robbers is silly and out of place.

The concern about the costs and you not wanting to pay the children of illegal immigrants is valid, but you're looking in the short term. If you let them pay the resident tuition, they'll be much more likely to graduate and get a good job instead of becoming a burden for the State.

 

Well, obviously the US should focus more, maybe, on offering more opportunities to its own citizens, than foreigners - read illegal immigrants. Foreign students, actually encompass more than 35% of the total students in above-average Universities in the US. That's maybe something to think about.

 

Yes they are Steve, did your wife first come here to the US as a legal?

I was just making this a bit fairer by pointing out that the members arguing with Bruce have a vested interest in allowing immigrants attend school here at a reduced cost.

 

Ummm they can't work here even with the best education in the world.

 

Oh yeah, I forgot you want to ship them to some strange foreign country (because that's what their country of birth is for them: a strange land) just because their parents did something wrong.

While we are at it, why don't we replace the American Constitution with the Hammurabi code? It would be easier to legally justify such inhumane act then.