St. Gregory Nazianzen Orthodox Theological Institute

Hmph! :sad: It seems incongruous at best, medieval at worst, for a man of any Christian Church to be so consumed with worldly titles -especially ones that are bought, not birthright. Here's the heart of the vanity: the arms, designed by the Herald of the (Serbian) Royal Family. The Arms of The Right Reverend Doctor Andrew Vujisić - The Armorial Register

And if you're interested in one yourself, here's the site of a company that sells such titles. TYPES OF TITLES AVAILABLE from £1,500 = $2,250 = Yes - it appears to be legal. Epitome of ostentation, as I see it. This guy obviously has an ego only an A-list rapper would envy! Hey, Drizzy!! Yo, Yeezy - what do you guys think?

Johann

 

how do i view my own post that i created? Please help me.

 

Weird, huh? Especially considering the fact that "The Right Reverend Doctor" part is entirely earned. (well, in practice, Archimandrite and a mitre are often awarded to a monastic priest after certain years of service). Same thing with his long list of postnominals - they're all legal British things, but most only require a (modest) yearly fee. Well, except the CFT - this one is a professional registration. I think it's fun to join the Royal Institution and add "FRI" to your name, but he goes way overboard.
We should give the guy a credit, though - he obviously has charisma and organizational skills. And, getting back to the school - what would you think about a degree from there? I would tend to accept a school endorsed by a canonical hierarch ( and +ATHENAGORAS is a canonical hierarch) as at least a sincere effort. Faculty seems flimsy, but legitimately credentialed (and interesting - including the noble and illustrious Rector). OTOH, His Rectorness Fr. Andrew could be fudging a bit on the extent of that endorsement.

 

I wouldn't. I have no desire to earn any religious degree. But it's OK if you do. :smile: And I wouldn't say anything against your degree, if you chose to earn one here.

OTOH - I wouldn't go to any school presided over by a compulsive title-collector. I've seen enough schools run by Professor Dr. Dr. Dr. Sir so-and-so, or Prince Academician Rev. such and such, or Mahatma Dr. of Satellite TV whoever -- right down to the Rev. Dr. GS-9 (his former government pay-grade) mentioned a while ago by Dr. Bear. :smile:

Not my kind of academic environment. And how title-collecting can co-exist with any religious sincerity, I have no idea.

Prof. Dr. Sir Johann, Grand Ph.D., Academician etc. etc.

Exalted Supreme Cleric of Omsk & Tomsk, Count Palatine of Minsk and Pinsk, Grand Wazoo of Tobolsk
Knight of the Eparchy of Novosibirsk :smile:

 

Title-collecting? It's as incongruous as a priest driving a brand-new Bentley! Methinks, in this passion, the Archimandrite has perhaps lost sight of a basic Biblical lesson:

Consider the lilies, how they grow: they toil not, neither do they spin; yet I say unto you, Even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these.
28 But if God doth so clothe the grass in the field, which to-day is, and to-morrow is cast into the oven; how much more shall he clothe you, O ye of little faith?
29 And seek not ye what ye shall eat, and what ye shall drink, neither be ye of doubtful mind.
30 For all these things do the nations of the world seek after: but your Father knoweth that ye have need of these things.
31 Yet seek ye his kingdom, and these things shall be added unto you.
32 Fear not, little flock; for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom.

Not really my place to remind him, I suppose. But when has that ever stopped me? :smile:

Johann

 

Yeah well, Bentley-driving priests are not unheard of, you know... I agree, this is bizarre, especially considering he is a monastic priest. I glanced at his Unisa dissertation - he half-boasts of it, and, of course, considers himself part of the Athonite tradition (Mt. Athos in Greece, AKA Holy Mountain, is the biggest "brand" in Orthodox monasticism). It would be beneath the dignity of this scion of a noble Serbian house to get his guidance from a lesser authority . He does characterize his spiritual experience as "puny and inadequate" .

Even more than for Fr. Dr. Laurent, this title-collecting also seems wholly unnecessary. His Church-given titles are lofty enough - he is not only a hiereos, a servant at the Altar of God, he is a Mitered Archimandrite. The highest he can get, if his academic hobbies prevent him from accepting Episcopacy. OTOH, isn't this compulsion mostly harmless? I mean, except for littering his fledging school's website with lengthy trivia on obscure British manorial history, more appropriate for a personal homepage. Also, it did move him to produce three doctoral dissertations acceptable for accredited schools. Just like Cleenewerck's exercises produced a readable book, some scholarly articles and useful Web projects (not counting his educational pursuits - surely his lectures at his parish, at Humboldt and his work at UCU are legitimate exploits).

 

Yes, it is. Perhaps even worse than bizarre. I know of a priest (Roman Catholic) who drives a 1984 Renault - a gift from his friend, another priest. I admire that -- it's my idea of restraint. He leads his Church by example and has much concern for the poor.

That priest's name (now) is Francis. He is, of course, the Pope. I'm not suggesting his Feudal Excellence, the Mitered Archimandrite and Lord of the Manor change his faith - but there is much he could learn from the former Jorge Mario, Cardinal Bergoglio.

Last I looked, humility was a virtue. Maybe the Archimandrite could learn from Fr. Cleenewerck. IIRC, he (Fr. Laurent) lives in a modest double-wide. :smile:

Johann

 

Well, it looks like you're a newbie, so maybe your post needs to be approved by a moderator.

 

I like the new Pope quite a lot. But on the subject of title collecting - we are talking the man who is a reigning monarch, in posession of the most pimpin' set of titles in all Christendom (well, maybe behind Pope of Alexandria), and also the highest. This may be a reason Francis doesn't need to compensate with cars, yachts and gold watches like CERTAIN brother hierarchs from newer sees (ahem, MOSCOW, ahem). Title this high is not even available to Fr. Andrew - even though we consider Latins heretics, the East never set up an alternative Pope of Rome (maybe because of lingering hopes of reconsiliation, or simply because any new Bishop of Rome would automatically take precedence over any other Bishop).

Fr Lawrence does indeed set an example of humility. It may be connected to the fact that OCA priests are notoriously underpaid .

 

I like him a whole lot - even though I don't belong to his Church. As far as titles go - he may, as you say, be in possession of the "most pimpin' set" (yo!) :smile: but unlike the Mitered-at-45° Archimandrite, Pope Francis is on the level. He didn't buy his -- they were earned by service to his Church and his flock.

Homes, I gotta tell ya: His (Pope Francis's) titles ain't just swag and bling, bought with mere skrill. :smile: His Holiness is keepin' it real!

Johann

 

So, about the theological institute...

 

Wha...? Oh yeah, that theological institute. Sorry for the hijack. Got carried away. All yours...

Johann

 

To be clear, "Mitered Archimandrite" is a real thing, nothing to sneeze at. UNLIKE shiny British things he bought, causing useless trivia take up space at the Institute web site, crowding out academic info.

What would be much more interesting to see is info on some graduates. We know on one - Fr. Laurent Cleenewerck, this is a positive thing (I'd like to see the dissertation, though). But what about others? One of the main supposed reasons for the whole operation was providing training and credentials for missionary priests. It did enroll a group of clergy from a comparatively massive Independent Catholic jurisdiction that converted en masse to Orthodoxy, in Guatemala. What happened to them? Did they get degrees, got ordained? This would help answer many questions.

 

You - Stanislav, Messdiener and other stalwarts of this thread probably know of this page - I liked the title, "goodguyswearblack-dot-org" instantly! Perhaps there might be some info there useful to you.

Distance Education

St. Gregory Nazianzen is listed - and reference is made to its status as an "autonomous academic unit" of Universidad Rural de Guatemala. Nothing shown about the Mexican accreditation mentioned earlier. That omission doesn't mean it doesn't exist, of course.

Interesting - another school, the Pavel Florensky Institute of Theology and Ministry is shown on the page as part of the Euclid organization - so yet another road leads to Fr. Cleenewerck. :smile:

Johann

 

It does not have Mexican academic accreditation. It calls itself "accredited" by the Archdiocese of Mexico, education department of which may be run by Fr. Andrew himself. Still, the Archdiocese and Met. Athenagoras is valid canonical authority in the Church for that region, so that carries a substantial weight.
BTW, I googled Guatemalan church Fr. Andrew was, according to some, instrumental in bringing to canonical fold. Apparently, their charismatic and accomplished leader Fr. Andes Giron (also a Mitered Archimandrite and a former catholic priest, vagante bishop, Senator and Ambassador to United States) recently died. Online presence is sparse, but, interestingly, they do not mention Fr. Andrew Vujisic, and they are building their own seminary (very modest and rural) to address still-acute shortage of trained priests. So if the Great Rector was responsible for this missionary outreach (that may, in fact, be numerically biggest part of the Archdiocese), he did not accomplish much at all.

 

Thanks for the link. I believe Messdiener actually contacted all the schools on that page, except Pavel Florensky Institute. Besides these, there is a St. Arseny Institute in Canada, under Orthodox Church in America.

 

Yes, and I've also spoken with the St. Arseny Institute as well. The programs there are not accredited, other than by the Orthodox Church. Having said that, the head priest was most helpful in discussing the programs, which did look promising for those planning to serve as a clergyman in the Orthodox Church.

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As someone else already brought it up, there is a residential school being opened to help train local clergy. From what I can piece together, the St. Gregory Nazianzen Orthodox Theological Institute was unable to fulfill its original mission of training local converts as an online school is unable to cater to a rural, computer-less population. Unfortunate!

Having said that, Stanislav, I know of at least one graduate from the institute, who is now using his undergraduate degree to do further graduate work at a private, accreddited university in the United States. For whatever little that is worth, it appears that the the institute's degree was accepted at least once in the US!

 

Correct. This Canadian school does not need degree-granting permission, as it does not grant degrees. Certificates and a diploma only, it seems.

Johann

 

Inst. of Ecumenical Studies @ Ukrainian Catholic University

Messdiener,

Did not see it mentioned on this thread but thought I would bring it to your attention as an option for DL.

New DL Master's Program > Inst. of Ecumenical Studies @ Ukrainian Catholic University

 

Thank you, dave042!