Information technology or Computer science

Discussion in 'IT and Computer-Related Degrees' started by daviddave, Mar 2, 2011.

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  1. ryoder

    ryoder New Member

    James I get what you are saying. I did work as an intern at a game company and let me tell you, everyone working there was poor. They are notorious for under paying programmers and artists since the market is an employers market. I don't do excel programming as a a software developer. I build systems that help people to be more productive and that is rewarding. Some of the systems I have built are security focused and others are for fraud detection so it's interesting work. I used to stick my nose up at anything business related but got over it.
    The pay and benefits are good and there are a lot of jobs open for a shrinking workforce of programmers.

    I have to stress learning on your own as most classes in programming don't result in a thorough understanding or competency in development. I can't believe the code some graduates put out. It's hard to believe they are being paid for what they are doing.
     
  2. lawrenceq

    lawrenceq Member

    I ordered an HTML book after thinking about your post. I understand HTML, but want to master it before moving on to another programming language.
     
  3. james_lankford

    james_lankford New Member

    forget html
    html isn't even a programming language
    being a master at html is a joke because there isn't anything to really master

    the difference between being a master web programmer and being a master in html is like the difference between being a master chef and being a master at making a bowl of cheerios

    if you want to master the basics of web programming then you need to install apache and php and starting making dynamic database web pages

    watch all these videos
    Building Dynamic Websites / OpenCourseWare
    download the pdfs, source code, and slides and then build some web pages
    get everything under Lectures, Sections, Projects

    learn about javascript, ajax, css, retrieving data from databases with php
    these are the things that make html interesting
     
  4. emmzee

    emmzee New Member

    James, I agree to a point, but these days "mastering html" necessarily includes things like CSS and Javascript, which while not difficult in theory, does take time and practice to master. (IMHO designing sites using CSS can still be a major PITA even for experienced designers.) Strict HTML is simple but nowadays "html" will need to include more than just the basic tags.

    So yes Lawrence, I generally agree, master HTML/CSS design, and move on to PHP/MySQL and dynamic websites as James suggests.
     
  5. lawrenceq

    lawrenceq Member

    Thanks for the links. I will play around with them tonight. Your post was too funny.

    I appreciate the great advice from you guys.
     
  6. ryoder

    ryoder New Member

    I have been doing html,c,jack,dot net since 1995 and would never call myself a master. Maybe in another twenty years.
     
  7. lawrenceq

    lawrenceq Member

    I'm comfortable with HTML so I'll probaby spend most of my time getting familiar with CSS before moving on.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 4, 2011
  8. wannabeit

    wannabeit New Member

    I've been learning C++, JAVA, JavaScript, SQL, VB.NET, PHP, MYSQL, CSS, and HTML for three years now. I am not an expert but I do know my way around. Certainly, I do not want to be a programmer. I find it to be tedious and boring. On the other hand, when I do websites and databases, I enjoys seeing the end result.
     
  9. ITJD

    ITJD Active Member

    My advice is this:

    Learning how to code through a degree program is half the picture.
    Learning how to code through doing practical work is half the picture.

    School teaches semantics. Practice teaches what really works and what doesn't.

    Having both makes you indispensable. Having school alone makes you overconfident. Having practice alone makes you insufferable.

    Just two cents.
    ITJD
     
  10. mcjon77

    mcjon77 Member

    James, EXCELLENT recommendation! I have actually been going through this same course for the past week, and I will take it for credit at Harvard extension this fall.

    James' comment about HTML may sound harsh, but there is an underlying point that is often missed. There is a HUGE distinction between being a web designer and being a web application programmer/developer. While there is SOME overlap in technology used, the two jobs are fundamentally different and require a fundamentally different thought process.

    As a web designer, you are primarily dealing with the aesthetics of the webpage (i.e. how the page looks, making sure that it is pretty and flows well). As a web application developer you are dealing primarily with the functionality of the webpage (can the page retrieve the data that you wanted, is your order processed correctly when you buy online).
    The technologies of the web designer include:
    HTML
    CSS
    Photoshop and other graphic design programs
    Flash

    The technologies employed by the web programmer include:
    PHP (or ASP.Net or JSP, or Ruby on Rails)
    SQL
    Javascript

    Of course, a web programmer needs to understand HTML and CSS, because that is how his clients are going to interface with his application. However he does NOT need to master it in the sense that he can create beautiful websites. By the same token, a web designer needs to be somewhat familiar with javascript and PHP, since small snippets of it will be interspersed with the webpage the designer is creating. However, by no means should a designer be concerned with "mastering" PHP or Javascript. In my 12 years in IT, I have met many web designers and many web programmers. I have NEVER met anyone who was very good/exceptional at both.

    Based on some of the OP's comments it sounds like he wants to be a web designer more than a web programmer/developer. If so, FANTASTIC! I am a programmer and I have absolutely ZERO interest in design. I am learning only as much design as will be necessary to perform my job. My cousin is the exact opposite. She is an excellent designer but has no interest in programming.

    Find your niche and go for it.
     
  11. lawrenceq

    lawrenceq Member

    You are dead on. I'm more interested in web design, but would like to learn some programming (Java,PHP).
     
  12. wannabeit

    wannabeit New Member

    Very well said. I've couldn't have explains it any better. This also put a greater perspective on my way of thinking.
     
  13. ryoder

    ryoder New Member

    I totally agree with these job descriptions. I work with web designers and their knowledge of JavaScript and CSS is limited to copy and paste from the Internet samples they find. Their ability to create content with Photoshop, slice up existing comps into HTML and lay out a consistent and usable site cannot be underestimated.
    Of course programmers can do these things but not nearly as well and lack the focus to do so because of all the other tasks they have on their plate.
    I often coach the web designers on JavaScript and help them get their samples working correctly.
    They help me with layout and alignment and usability.
     
  14. miniard

    miniard New Member

    ryoder, I know you recommend learning computer programing on your own so what material should I buy to help me learn? Thanks
     
  15. accesspaymentsyste

    accesspaymentsyste New Member

    A Computer Science is better degree in IT department.and in IT department good job opportunities available.
     
  16. unprez

    unprez New Member

    I almost left CS after my 2nd yr to do ITM because of the intense difficulty too, though it was a 1st tier school where the avg was a 60%.... I had my credits transferred and everything. Neverthless, I decided to stick to it and very glad that I did. CS open doors that my IT degree couldn't. I am doing grad IT degree now, but only becuase I want something more management at the post grad level.

    I think statistically the program had a 40% drop out rate too.
     
  17. BlueMason

    BlueMason Audaces fortuna juvat

    You do realize that the last post to this thread was made in March of 2011...
     
  18. ryoder

    ryoder New Member

    Some people find old threads and don't realize or care that they are old. It doesn't bother me.

    I would start by reading a dummies book like Java for dummies. Download Eclipse and the JDK 1.6.
    Read the entire book and work all of the examples.
    Then build a small application.
    Then get the Sun Certified Java Programmer book and read that.
    Update your application.

    At this point you should be much better off than someone who took a Java course at a university. It will take effort, however.
     

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