Harvard Extension vs SUNY Empire State

There have been some harsh words written in this thread and it needs to end now. I will call out individuals if I have to but if I do it will be to announce that they're on vacation. I've been criticized for doing this in the past but it continues to be my policy because I want people to know that something is being done (contributors and non-contributors alike) and I want people to know where the line is drawn. Personal attacks are not allowed. Provoking behavior is viewed similarly.

 

It's kind of amazing what passions Harvard Extension can arouse.

I have to admit that I'm increasingly uncomfortable with it. What I don't like is the feeling that some significant proportion of its students choose it simply because they want to flaunt the 'Harvard' name.

Degreeinfo has actually had a thread that demanded that the rest of us justify why we weren't studying at Harvard Extension.

http://forums.degreeinfo.com/distance-learning-discussions/9429-why-not-harvard.html

The implicit premise always seems to be that this is the best DL choice and that nothing else can possibly compare with it.

We've seen it happening once again in this thread, where SUNY Empire State College just kind of dropped out of consideration after the first couple of posts. I didn't see any substantial reason for that dismissal, apart from the fact that immature people couldn't play the Harvard posing-game with it.

There have been a great many threads about HES over the years. Here's a couple that I happen to remember.

http://forums.degreeinfo.com/distance-learning-discussions/30259-how-prestige-harvard-extension.html

http://forums.degreeinfo.com/distance-learning-discussions/20727-harvard-extension-school.html

I'll repeat what I wrote earlier in this thread: I perceive Harvard Extension School as another example of the open-admissions adult-educxtion community-outreach genre. It's not tremendously different from SUNY Empire State College in that regard. Both schools occupy a similar niche.

That's not a bad thing by any means. It's nothing to be ashamed of. I'd be proud to have a degree from either HES or ESC. If I was hiring, I'd definitely consider somebody with a degree from either place. I might even be impressed that the individual was taking advantage of continuing educxtion opportunities.

But I'd be concerned if I thought that the Harvard Extension graduate was strutting around, trying to assert rank over everyone else in the room after having graduated from what is ultimately another open-admissions program. I'd worry about the individual's truthfulness and about his or her ability to get along with other employees.

 

Oh, SUNY ESC definitely didn't drop from my consideration - I've just said that "ok, Harvard, even HES" will have more brand name than SUNY-ESC. That's all.

But, right now, Suny-Esc is still my first choice, HES my second.

As I said, the second bachelors is kind irrelevant for my work. I just want a BA in Film (or Media, Communications, etc... if not possible in Film) form a solid institution.

From what I know, only 3 traditional institutions offer a BA in Film online (or partially online, like HES): Suny Esc, Harvard Extension and Arizona State.

Suny-Esc gives me more flexibility and I like the fact that I'd be able to use a portfolio review to get credits. Feels good to see that your work throughout the years can be recognized by the academia.

But HES seems to have a more solid academic choice of courses - I've watched the lectures they have online, and they are all top notch.

But right know I'd say I'm 80% on Suny, 20% on HES.

Thanks for everyone for sharing your opinions.

 

Toss the words "Harvard Extension" in any thread and it will stretch on for 5 or 6 pages, bring out the demons in half the posters and make defense attorneys out of the rest.
Yet, in every single HES thread that I've read, the final message revolves around the fact that:
1) An HES degree is hard to finish and rigorous to study.
2) HES is an accredited Harvard school, which the vast majority of current students, alumni and employers respect and acknowledge without giving second class citizen status to its graduates.
3) People should be able to study in whichever accredited school they are able to enroll and graduate from without always defending either the school or the program against the close-minded temerity of narrow-minded people.
4) There are far too many good schools and programs out there that people should stop quibbling about the validity or the reputation of an HES degree or alumni status or privilege.

 

I think you're bringing some of your own baggage to this. In an earlier post, you said you preferred SUNY because it's not trying to be something it isn't. That's fine but neither is HES. HES is Harvard, and while it's open admissions, it's not guaranteed completion like other schools really are.

Why wouldn't a graduate be proud of his or her school? And is it not possible for a SUNY grad to strut around as well.

One last thought - this comment about 'immature' people using the Harvard name seems odd to me. Why would you have to be immature to pick a school with a better ROI. Harvard does open doors and people may not like that but it's not immature to take advantage of market-driven opportunities.

 

Well said. Why a degree from HES needs to be defended is beyond comprehension.

 

So your goal will require a"study vacation" instead of a holiday? Got for it!

I've done a few and always enjoyed them" Maymester at Cornell (Ithaca IS Gorges), and the University of Nebraska, Lincoln, for instance.

One gets off the well-beaten path, gets exposed to new people and places, makes new friends, and yes, learns several things.

Maybe lifes not a beach.

 

My point was that if you already listed your credential as “ALM in Extension Studies, Harvard University, 2010,” why should anyone make you feel obliged to specify to your employer that your program was specifically from the “Harvard Extension School”? (The name of the degree is already a give-away.) In the same manner, if you already listed your credential as “J.D., Harvard University, 2010,” why should you feel obliged to be redundant and add “Harvard Law School”? Do we say “AM in History, Harvard University, Faculty of Arts & Sciences, Department of History, 2010”? Not adding the particular unit is not a misrepresentation and is certainly not unethical. But of course, we all agree that we shouldn’t be dishonest by concealing basic, important information and that we should be proud of our accomplishments.

Yup!

Indeed, you said it all!

 

You don't have to. Harvard's careers site for the Extension school states that they are to be reported as "Harvard University", not HES. However, it does state that you must state that your degree is in Extension Studies with a concentration

On another note I think I should counter Bill Dayson's statement about open enrollment. HES is open enrollment, the degree programs are not. You need to take at least two courses at HES and maintain a B average to matriculate into a program. While this may be seen as just another form of "open enrollment" it's actually just another take on the admit process you get weeded out either way.

 

A lot of people benefit from this. Maybe they had a rocky start to their college careers 5 or 10 years ago and so transferring could be a problem. The HES admit process is about the here and now. What can you do "now." I don't care what your SAT scores were 5 years ago, it's about your current capabilities. A lot of people benefit from this.

 

Every university requires that its students maintain a satisfactory GPA in order to graduate. The fact is that Harvard extension is no more selective than the vast majority of DL programs that we discuss on Degreeinfo every day.

As Kizmet argues, that's not necessarily a bad thing. There's definitely something to be said for the adult-ed community-access genre of programs. I think that Harvard extension is fine. Some of its classes are very good. I'd be proud to have a HES degree. I have no intention of belittling it.

But I don't believe that it's better than all other adult continuing-ed programs either, which seems to be what Degreeinfo demands that I accept. Just as good? Sure. Better? Nope. More prestigious? Not really.

That's my final opinion and it's non-negotiable. I don't feel like getting drawn into ego-battles, so that's it for me in this thread.

 

I'm not trying to draw you into an argument, but HES likely has better faculty than the majority (not all) of other continuing education programs, leading to a better education for its students. Harvard wouldn't do anything to diminish the brand it has built, and that includes recruiting the best faculty and adjunct instructors possible to teach HES courses. It is likely easier to recruit high-level talent to lead classes in a metro area like Boston (one of the most educated cities in America) than it would be in other regions leading to a better program than one based in a smaller metropolitan area.

In regards to prestige, it absolutely is more prestigious than other programs. Prestige is a matter of perception. The reality is that very few people outside of New England even know what HES is, but they know Harvard. You say you have a degree from "Harvard Extension School" and all people hear is "Harvard" (this happened to me more than once when I was home and my mom told some friends in passing I was taking classes at Harvard Extension School). You could say your degree was from the "Harvard School of Basket Weaving" and the majority of people would still be impressed.

 

So, I'm going to chime in here a bit late. I'm considering going back to school because I want to change my career. I've been a web designer and developer for about 15 years but I'm thinking about calling it quits. The fact is, I started this career as a hobby. I was a big computer nerd as a kid and I'm tired of "working" at my hobby. I'd like to be a lawyer. I know, weird, huh?

Anyway, I recently discovered Harvard Extension. I dropped out of college years ago to pursue my career. And, while my career has been relatively successful, I've always had this nagging feeling about going back and finishing what I started.

When I came across HES, I thought - "wow!". I understand the perception that HES is "Harvard Lite" - but I imagine that most people will agree that Harvard Law School is anything but "lite".

I guess my concern is whether going to HES is a good way to up my chances of getting into Harvard Law. My intuition says "yes".

In any case, as for the "prestige" of HES - my thought is this. First, it's a good school with top notch professors. Where else can one have the opportunity to do distance education AND be taught by Nobel Laureates and other quality Harvard faculty? Secondly, it seems to me that it's on this board the perception of HES's "prestige" is about 50/50. If I wanted to go to HES strictly for the prestige - and I don't - having 50% of potential employers look at my resume and say "Wow! Harvard!" is better than 100% of them saying "Huh. University of East Bumbletown."

Anyway, any thoughts on the potential for admission to Harvard Law from HES?