Recognition of DL Degrees in the Business World

And the likelihood of ever earning a degree from UOP whether as an online or on-campus student – “The university says that its graduation rate, using the federal standard, is 16 percent, which is among the nation’s lowest, according to Department of Education data. But the university has dozens of campuses, and at many, the rate is even lower.”

Re: New York Times http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/11/education/11phoenix.html

 

From the same article: "The official rates at some University of Phoenix campuses are extremely low — 6 percent at the Southern California campus, 4 percent among online students"

 

www.collegeresults.org has searchable graduation rates by school. Since Phoenix Online was under discussion here's theirs:

Four-year graduation rate 0.8%
Five-year graduation rate 3.2%
Six-year graduation rate 4.3%

Unfortunately, some schools with prominent DL programs only have graduation rate data listed for their resident programs.

 

isn't this really a for-profit vs. non-profit argument?

 

What's a "business"? What's a "DL degree"?

I think that private sector employers seek educated people for all kinds of reasons.

Sometimes they are seeking specific training and skills. Tech firms often need biochemists, computer scientists or aerospace engineers with narrowly defined expertise. So they will favor graduates of schools with strengths in those areas, which almost always leaves DL out.

Sometimes firms are seeking more generic applicants. So they might just be using the university degree as a screening tool. For some employers the degree will just be a check-the-box, and a DL degree will work as well as any other degree. Other employers might be looking at the university as if it was a search-firm, pre-screening candidates for them, so these employers will place greater weight on graduates of more selective programs. Again, most open-admissions DL programs will fall short here, though a few high-end selective ones might shine.

So I don't see this as a generational issue at all, and it isn't likely to be changing significantly in the future. Employers aren't prejudiced against DL out of ignorance, they often have credible reasons for making the choices that they do. It often has nothing to do with DL per se, and a strong DL program would be competitive if it had a reputation for selectivity and for academic strength in its field. I think that Thunderbird probably fits that description.

Of course, everything is complicated by the fact that university degrees aren't the only variables in hiring. Employers are often looking primarily for experience and they might weight that a lot more heavily than a degree. So DL degrees, even degrees from comparatively weak schools, might work better for people who have been working for a while than they would for younger people who might hope to use them to land their first job.

Somebody could even sell a DL degree that way, if they emphasized to prospective employers how they earned their degree by DL while they were working responsibly and productively in the field. Even if their DL program lacked tony high-tier prestige, the combination of education and hands-on experience might look more credible to an employer than a purely-classroom guy might.

In fact, many B&M schools realize the value of this and offer their students co-op programs that combine university classes with real-life experience in industry. So DL students aren't always going to be at a disadvantage. There might be advantages to DL as well, if they can sell themselves right.

So I'd emphasize three variables that will likely improve employer responses: 1) university reputation in your field, 2) admissions selectivity, and 3) paying careful attention to what you are doing while you are earning the DL degree.

 

I totally agree, Bill. It's experience that counts. In the past, I double-checked by posting questions on this board to confirm what I already know to be true, and what was the reason I started this thread: While there are some exceptions, generally speaking, employers in the business world are interested in your experience and not in the fact that you got your degree online. My question is how a DL degree affects entrance level job applicants, and it appears that it could be a disadvantage to them because of the lack of job experience.

 

Whether via drop-out or transfer … this low UOP graduation rate might be significant (?).

 

Is it really worse than other schools? Graduation rates are pretty low across the board, aren't they? I'm not defending UOP, I'm just curious.

 

I don’t know either Michael, but this quote from the NY Times article regarding UOP “…using the federal standard, is 16 percent, which is among the nation’s lowest, according to Department of Education data. But the university has dozens of campuses, and at many, the rate is even lower” seemingly points more toward UOP vs. other institutions.

 

It might have a lot to do with their heavy recruiting practices. I requested info from them once and the counselor (salesman) who contacted me was quite forceful, in a nice way, but still forceful. Started calling me Dr. Oliver right away and a bunch of other tricky stuff. Called me many times and became annoying. I was not impressed with their tactics. When you push that hard to get people in, I'm sure the drop out rate will be higher.

 

And they’re extremely expensive for a no-name recognition university …

 

Completion Rates

Michael,

I work for a small, online for-profit college. Our completion rate for admitted degree students is over 60% for our BS program. And that goes back about 5 years before we had better screening mechanisms to come up with the number. More recent admissions are on track to be higher than that. It can be done, but so much depends on the readiness of the students and the types of program. We're on a much smaller scale in a niche market, so that figures into the equation as well.

CB

 

60% seems pretty good, although I'm not familiar with the national averages on such things. It sounds like you do a much better job of screening that some. I get the impression that some for-profit schools will accept almost anyone who can pay.

 

I have less of an issue with acceptance than grade inflation - a.k.a. "if you can pay, you get an A". I have colleagues that got their MBAs from some of the for-profits and the work effort for their 3.9/4.0 they described doesn't match what I had to go through for my 3.7ish. Ultimately it doesn't matter (who ever asks about your GPA?) but I wonder how much they actually learned in their 30 credit hours, and how this can impact people's perceptions of DL MBAs.

 

I'm not sure profit status has anything to do with it but I'm certain in many cases money does. I earned a 4.0GPA from a for profit and worked my butt off to get it. My brother works for a major defense contractor that has an on site executive MBA program for the higher ups and up and coming managers, held in the offices, 3 hours a week after work hours and according to him they kind of tease each other about how easy the program is since they do group, cohort work and really aren't required to do much else beyond that. The cohort work is pretty light...

Anyhow this is from a pretty well known, politically connected school that is non-profit in North Texas. I'll admit it kind of ticks me off when I think about how hard I had to work and I think it diminishes the value of having an MBA. But what can we do?

 

I worked extremely hard to get a 4.0 on my master's and I agree with your statement that nobody ever asks. I wonder why I went to so much trouble when nobody really cares. I'm working hard on my PhD now, but I'm not going to kill myself to get a 4.0. Does anyone know if someone might check GPA if you are applying for a high ed teaching job?

 

Not really, a PhD normally carries some value if you have a good publication record. GPAs don't mean much for a PhD as it is the dissertation that matters.

Given the grade inflation in higher education, employers know that 4.0 GPAs don't mean much nowadays as some schools hand them to everyone.

 

My 4.0 was not handed out easily, believe me!

 

The problem with for profits is that they rely mainly on adjuncts. Adjuncts know that low grades mean low teaching evaluation scores so we tend to inflate grades in order to protect our jobs.

Some for profits like Devry are very aware of this problem and now changing their teaching evaluations in order to avoid grade inflation. Devry will know put more weight in quality of teaching rather than student evaluation, this should help with the grade inflation and give more credibility to online education.
The reality is that grade inflation is hurting online education as employers tend to undermine work done online due to this problem.