Benefits and risks of obtaining a DETC Psy.D?

Any good personal injury firm would have a field day with your scenario.

Hypothetical example. A DETC graduate living in Illinois applies for admission to a regionally accredited university located in Oregon via their website and is denied admission, on the basis that the graduate's DETC credential is invalid.

The graduate then retains a personal injury law firm in Illinois. The firm determines that personal jurisdition is properly vested in a federal district court in Illinois in that the university located in Oregon purposely availed itself of doing business in Illinois through its website, thus meeting minimum contact requirements.

Secondarilly, the firm determines that subject matter jurisction is properly vested in a federal district court in Illinois, since the case deals with federal questions of law, as it pertains to the validity of DETC credentials.

Thirdly, the firm determines that venue jurisdiction is properly vested in a federal district court in Illinois, since the events giving rise to the plaintiff's claim occured in Illinois, where the plaintiff suffered harm.

Once the criteria for the three rings of jurisdiction are met, along with diversity jurisdiction requirements under 28 USC 1332, a lawsuit is filed in a federal district court in the State of Illinois. The university located in Oregon is forced to defend itself in Illinois, despite its failed attempts at short circuiting the lawsuit via a variety of FRCP 12(b) motions. To make it more interesting, factor in the law firm bringing a class action comprising a group of aggrieved DETC students and graduates.

Your scenario of the DETC students is interesting. I can't predict the future, but I would not be surprised to see litigation. Good points, simon.

 

SIMON: There are significant numbers of RA doctoral programs that are not known for their academic rigor or contribution of meaningful scholarly research, so to make global generalizations regarding the criteria necessary for DETC doctoral degrees to achieve equivalence with RA doctoral programs in general, has no validity. At least not at this time.

 

No need. You have done a good job of enlightening posters yourself.

 

As I thought.

 

But if history is any guide, they will fail. Universities and licensing boards routinely prefer or require degrees with particular forms of accreditation, and have been doing so for decades. Where are the legal challenges?

For example, the vast majority of states require bar applicants to hold ABA-accredited law degrees. Thus, most states regard DETC law degrees -- such as those from Concord or Taft -- as essentially worthless for professional practice. This arguably amounts to mass discrimination against DETC degrees.

In fact, DETC law degrees are legally second-rate even in California, which is their primary market. California requires DETC law students to pass an additional exam (the FYLSE or "baby bar") that is waived for students at ABA or Calbar accredited schools.

In the same way, you will find that ABA law schools routinely list a regionally accredited degree as an admissions requirement. So there is discrimination against DETC bachelor's degrees as well.

If DETC grads have strong legal cases, why is there still so much obvious discrimination against DETC degrees in the legal community?

 

(off-topic ad-hominem attack deleted by moderator)

 

I know someone will want to bring up the case of Russ Mitchell, a Concord law graduate who successfully petitioned to take the bar exam in Massachusetts.

This case, while interesting, was of limited significance. It did not overturn a ban on non-ABA degrees, because Massachusetts (like California) does not have such a ban.

In Massachusetts, non-ABA law schools (such as the Southern New England School of Law) can operate, and their graduates can sit for the bar exam. But traditionally, this policy only applied to non-ABA law schools that were B&M. Mitchell simply argued that if a graduate of a non-ABA B&M school can take the bar exam, then a graduate of a non-ABA DL school should be eligible for consideration as well.

If a state wants to strictly require ABA accredited degrees (and most do), then the Mitchell decision has no effect one way or the other. The Mitchell decision overturned a policy that favored B&M over DL, but it did not affect any policies pertaining to accreditation.

 

If the DETC schools don't compare well, then they don't compare well. The fact that their doctoral programs are new (which isn't always true, SCUPS and Cal Coast have been awarding non-accredited doctorates for decades) doesn't mean that employers will overlook their weakness. Keep in mind as well that the American Museum of Natural History and Memorial Sloan Kettering Cancer Center both received their NY accreditation in 2009. Those doctoral programs are new as well.

Why should I? I never suggested that either Capella or Union are major powers in the doctoral-program world.

In an earlier post, Rich had disputed that DETC was a "major player" in that space. You challenged him, saying that DETC "absolutely" was, mistakenly insisting that it was the only non-RA accreditor that had been recognized to accredit doctorates. I corrected that mistake and then agreed with Rich, saying that neither DETC or any of the DETC-accredited schools are currently important on the doctoral-level. Then I pointed out several non-RA doctoral programs that really are important, for comparative purposes.

I don't think that any of the current DETC doctoral programs compare well with stronger programs in their subjects. There's plenty of evidence to support that, including things like reputation among professionals in those fields, scholarly productivity, grants and awards, academic and professional collaborations or faculty strength. I encourage anyone who disagrees with that to make their case for whatever programs they like.

The fact that you think that some RA programs aren't very strong either doesn't challenge that observation as far as I can see. Nobody has ever said that there aren't comparatively weak RA programs out there. DETC doctoral programs' greater similarity to the weaker RA programs than to stronger programs is entirely consistent with the idea that DETC and its schools still represent a comparatively weak presence in the doctoral space.

 

Obviously we don't know the outcome of any legal actions should they occur and are engaging in speculation. In fact I am not certain that we can draw comparisons between the DETC JD degree and the DETC-accredited doctoral degrees, such as the new Psy.D, in terms of acceptance and utility within graduates' respective states. However what I can say state with significant assurance is that IF a graduate of the DETC Psy.D program attempts to obtain licensure as a Psychologist in the majority of states, they will be met with significant levels of opposition and probable rejection. HOWEVER, if they intend to primarily use the doctorate to enable them to refer to themselves as "doctor," without seeking a license as a Psychologist, they will probably experience a greater chance of success. As an example, I contacted the board of licensure in Florida, a state that has very stringent statutes and regulation pertaining to the use of appropriate professional titles (ie, Dr.) and doctoral degrees and was told that a DETC doctorate would meet their criteria due to its being accredited by the DOE.

 

This thread is creating lots of heat but very little light. Someone's personal agenda is showing.

 

I wonder if you have any idea what you’re talking about. Concord is RA by the NCA.

http://www.concordlawschool.edu/about-concord-law-school.asp

 

Twenty years ago most people knew little about accreditation. Since then, many books have been written on the subject and with the advent of the internet, more people are aware of the issue of accreditation.

As DETC schools turn out more graduates, those graduates will be looking for equal treatment under the law with respect to the acceptance of their credentials. Thus, I expect to see not only legal challenges from the private sector (personal injury and civil rights law), but also federal intervention in the matter.

I guess we'll see one way or the other.

 

When? DETC-accredited schools have been awarding academic degrees--as opposed to vocation-related associates--for more than 30 years. Where's the hue and cry, not to mention legal and/or governmental action? Interesting prediction, but one inconsistent with past events. But there's been a lot of that being shown in this thread.

 

Which doesn't change the point, does it? Degrees from Taft and Concord enjoy the exact same (lack of) utility, don't they? The poster's technical error is like getting wrong the color of the truck one got hit by. One still got hit by a truck.

 

Speaking from direct knowledge and being in the mental health field, I can let all of you know that the APA will not accept any totally distance learning psych degree programs for accreditation. There has to be an one year residency. When I did my practicum there were other psych doctorate students from Walden, UoP and Fielding at the same psychiatric hospital. A couple of them dropped out because the NC Psych Board has a standard there must be a year's residency at the school and the school they were enrolled in did not meet that requirement (they were regionally accredited programs too). However, there are other states that will allow for total distance education doctorates to sit for licensure.

The Psy D is not only useful in some states to become licensed as a psychologist, but in other states such a degree may be required for employment of higher administrator positions in mental health agencies which do not require a licensed psychologist to head up such an agency. In this instance, a DETC Psy D degree is very useful. It depends on what your goal is in regards to your degree as to where you may want to enroll. So there is a benefit of a Psy D from a DETC school because the Psy D would be under the accreditation of a recognized accrediting agency.

 

Rich is right! And the same could be said for CCU and UofP, or for (the sister schools) CalSouthern and Northcentral, HMU and TUI. They are all accredited and offer doctoral degrees, but the utility of each is at the low end of the spectrum do to a lack of recognition in academic and research circles.

 

How could you lump all of these schools into one? If a position calls for an RA school then CCU and HMU is out. If a position calls for an accreditied degree they are all in.

 

True, but Concord is also accredited by DETC, and has held DETC accreditation since 2000. Concord became part of regionally accredited Kaplan University in 2007, but has apparently kept its DETC accreditation as well.

Technically, there was no error, since Concord is in fact a DETC-accredited school as stated. The more recent acquisition of regional accreditation by merger has done nothing to affect Concord's status in the legal community, since it is only professional (ABA) accreditation that really matters.