Benefits and risks of obtaining a DETC Psy.D?

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by simon, Feb 5, 2010.

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  1. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Oh, b.s. Thanks.
     
  2. simon

    simon New Member

    We should keep in mind that the vast majority of students who will pursue a DETC Psy.D will be licensed Social Workers and Licensed Mental Health Counselors who will not be seeking Psychology licensure. So it is not as if these individuals have not been appropriately screened by their respective state boards to provide psycho-therapeutic interventions in health-related areas but have clearly demonstrated the professional competencies to conduct clinical services. In such cases, the primary objective in seeking a DETC Psy.D is to bolster their professional status as well as their marketability.
    .
    In addition, the fact that DETC has been granted approval by the US Department of Education to accredit doctoral degrees, including the first Psy.D, implies that this is no longer a matter of "DETC apologists" making claims regarding the equivalence of their degrees with those from RA schools. DETC is now a major player as an accrediting agency and a potential competitor in the doctoral degree market with some RA schools and this fact cannot be discounted or negated. Along with their expanded scope of authority comes a responsibility to defend the legitimacy of their newly acquired doctorates. Therefore, it is conceivable that DETC may support and defend graduates of their doctoral programs who have experienced resistance/bias from their respective state boards. It is also not unreasonable to believe that state statutes and regulations can be changed or modified to accommodate DETC doctoral graduates and I believe that in certain instances this will be the case.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 7, 2010
  3. CS1

    CS1 New Member

    Based on simon's conjecture, if those students are unable to use their DETC credentials and, as a proximate result suffer damages, or otherwise if the schools conferring such DETC degrees suffered economic loss, as a result of students leaving those schools, it is not inconceivable that litigation might ensue.

    I'm not so sure "previous legal activity" would have any bearing, if it ever did end up in court.
     
  4. simon

    simon New Member

    Of course conjecture just as your perspective is based on conjecture. Because you raised the question as to whether there are an legal precedents regarding this issue why don't you explore this matter and let us know your findings.
     
  5. simon

    simon New Member

    If such a scenario were to occur, DETC and its doctoral accredited schools would most probably need to respond legally because there would absolutely be no rationale for students to attend such programs that had no credibility or professional utility. Inaction on the part of DETC would also result in the erosion of the image and status of their newly acquired doctoral programs forcing DETC accredited schools to cease offering these degrees. Not a likely scenario.
     
  6. CS1

    CS1 New Member

    If the DETC is accredited by the U.S. Department of Education, then it also involves a federal question of law. Thus, it is conceivable that students that have been harmed by not being to use their DETC credentials and earn a living, might find relief on the federal level.


    No argument there.
     
  7. simon

    simon New Member


    Very valid point.
     
  8. CS1

    CS1 New Member

    You may be right, as once the DETC, its accredited schools and students get behind it, it will likely lead to change. It sounds like a class action waiting to happen.
     
  9. CS1

    CS1 New Member

    And, likewise.
     
  10. BryanOats

    BryanOats New Member

    Didn’t the DETC or one of its member schools sue to be recognized by the State of Texas a few years ago?
     
  11. JWC

    JWC New Member

    Where can one earn a Psy.D. with no dissertation? Thanks.
     
  12. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Really? That would be a horrible reason for pursuing such a degree. In fact, released from the restriction of meeting licensure requirements, such degree seekers would be free to pursue a variety of degree options much less restrictive than an DETC-accredited PsYD.
    Of course it can. DETC accredits a handful of doctoral-granting schools, compared to multitudes accredited by the RAs. A "major player"? Please.
    Pure speculation. In fact, no such behavior has ever been exhibited by DETC regarding the acceptability of any degrees awarded by its accredited schools. They've either been utterly disinterested to act or they've been complete failures. But here's the thing: has anyone ever seen any effort by DETC to deal with this? Seriously, anything? Or has Mike Lambert been instead satisfied to rule over his fiefdom with little or no regard to the bigger accreditation picture? Let the observable facts lead you to your own conclusion. (As opposed to students/graduates of DETC-accredited schools who tend to exercise an agenda regarding these matters.)

    Seriously, has DETC ever made a public move regarding this?
     
  13. Abner

    Abner Well-Known Member

    California Coast University sued THECB for two reasons. Number one, CCU was on a "illegal to use" degree list in Texas. Number two, THECB incorrectly chose not to recognize NA degrees/schools. In effect, they arbitrarily decided to supersede DOE and CHEA. This was not the intent of the bill that led to this in the first place, and the bill's author served as a witness against THECB. In essence, the opinion was that the bill designed to protect Texas from diploma mills should not have included valid schools like CCU, and it should not have discriminated against valid accreditors like DETC.

    It was also great to see a groundswell underground movement many of us participated in to help defeat that kind old school ass backwards mentality. Victory is sweet!!!!!!!!!!!! :)

    This was a pivotal time in educational history. Great decision.

    Abner
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 7, 2010
  14. CS1

    CS1 New Member

    The DETC may not have to go so far since many graduates have used federal loans to secure their DETC credentials. Conceivably, a graduate that was denied the right to use such a credential for the purpose of working and paying back their federal loans, would have an adverse impact on the federal government. Thus, the issue might best be heard before the federal courts, since it involves a federal question of law. Moreover, since the injured DETC students are likely to be from a variety of jurisdictions, federal courts would be better equipped to handle the issue of diversity jurisdiction.

    Moreover, the DETC receives its authority and recognition under Federal law, specifically, 34 C.F.R. 602, as it applies to Education. Therefore, I'm inclined to believe that this is really a matter for the federal government to pursue, since the invalidatiion of DETC credentials is in direct opposition to federal law. I also see anti-competitive issues at play here in your scenario, resulting in harm to consumers trying to better themselves through education, but that's a whole other ball of wax, and also better left to the feds.

    The problem with hypotheticals is that there is no end to the possibilities. But it's a good way to explore the issues.
     
  15. simon

    simon New Member

    SIMON: Really? In fact a DETC accredited Psy.D would meet the needs of many of these professional clinicians, especially more seasoned practitioners including those who have ABD status and there is absolutely nothing "horrible" about doing so. However what is very evident in your comments is that you are obviously not a clinician, let alone a licensed one, and have absolutely no idea as to what academic pathways are in the best interests of mental health professionals. In addition the grossly negative and adamant positions you take against DETC doctorates, including the new Psy.D, raises a red flag as to the underlining basis for your vehement negative position. This is especially so when we consider that the DETC-Psy.D program has ONLY received accreditation status a week ago and that there is not one shred of data as to its viability or lack of such for anyone to take such a vehement negative position. UNLESS there is another motive. With all due respect, are you feeling threatened by the DETC doctorate?

    (irrelevant personal attack removed by moderator)

    DOUGLAS: Of course it can. DETC accredits a handful of doctoral-granting schools, compared to multitudes accredited by the RAs. A "major player"? Please.

    SIMON: Absolutely! It has been approved by the US Department of Education to accredit doctoral level degrees and in that regard is the ONLY other accrediting agency besides RA, to have such authority. In that regard it is a "major player", although a new one in the context of accrediting doctoral programs. Sorry that this fact is making you so unhappy.


    DOUGLAS: Pure speculation. In fact, no such behavior has ever been exhibited by DETC regarding the acceptability of any degrees awarded by its accredited schools. They've either been utterly disinterested to act or they've been complete failures. But here's the thing: has anyone ever seen any effort by DETC to deal with this? Seriously, anything? Or has Mike Lambert been instead satisfied to rule over his fiefdom with little or no regard to the bigger accreditation picture? Let the observable facts lead you to your own conclusion. (As opposed to students/graduates of DETC-accredited schools who tend to exercise an agenda regarding these matters.)

    Seriously, has DETC ever made a public move regarding this?


    SIMON: Regardless of the past, accrediting doctoral degree programs has established DETC as a more credible accrediting agency and in light of this fact it is not unreasonable to expect that DETC will initiate legal action to establish a firm footing for their doctoral programs and doctoral graduates if they are met with resistance/bias by certain states.
     
  16. simon

    simon New Member


    It will be interesting to observe the reaction and response of many states to DETC doctoral graduates, especially those from the DETC-accredited Psy.D program. However, IF there is major opposition to these credentials and this results in the loss of viability and utility of these degrees it is very possible that lawsuits will ensue, either by graduates of these programs, the federal government or by the DETC. We shall see.
     
  17. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Thank you, "simon," for proving yet again two points. One, you're wrong. Two, your interests are based in ad hominem (inaccurately, of course). Again, I'll pass.
     
  18. simon

    simon New Member


    Well are you a clinician and one who is licensed? Are you a credentialed career counselor who possesses expertise and experience in guiding mental health professionals into appropriate educational/career tracks? Does the specialization of your doctorate provide you with the competencies as well as credibility to make gross assertions of fact and predictions against DETC doctoral programs without one iota of substantive current evidence to support these statements? Does your inordinate proclivity to denigrate DETC doctorates not raise a red flag regarding your underlying motives? Did you not seek out multiple doctoral degree programs, including some (ie, MIGS) that were unaccredited, in order to expedite the easiest pathway to the completion of a doctorate? So I am "wrong" and engaging in "ad hominem" antics? Not at all, just clarifying the facts so that posters will be able to discern that possession of a doctorate in and of itself does not imply expertise regarding all matters, such as DETC doctoral program, or provide greater credibility to the comments made by a poster who possesses such a degree.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 7, 2010
  19. BillDayson

    BillDayson New Member

    Please expand on what you anticipate those needs to be.

    My impression is that a large market might be counselors licensed with masters degrees who want to sport a "Doctor" title for marketing reasons. I have concerns about the ethics and even the legality of that. Laymen are naturally going to interpret the title "PsyD" to mean "professionally trained psychologist".

    I snipped out the personality battle stuff. Our DL board psychology threads often devolve into psycho threads. That doesn't exactly increase my confidence in the profession.

    DETC is not the only recognized non-RA accreditor that accredits doctoral programs. Many of them do. ACICS certainly does. ATS, the ABA, ACAOM, CCE, there are lots of them.

    I agree with Rich that the DETC accredited doctoral programs are virtual non-entities in the doctoral space right now. Just compare the leading DETC doctoral programs with the NY Regents (another recognized non-RA doctoral accreditor) lineup:

    http://forums.degreeinfo.com/showthread.php?t=32667

    Rockefeller University and the American Museum of Natural History vs SCUPS and Cal Coast? It's like entirely different planets.

    What will bridge that gap and bring the DETC schools more recognition? Certainly not hysterical talk of lawsuits. DETC can't simply litigate its way to respect, that's just dumb. DETC schools will have to enter the game, participating alongside all the other doctoral programs and being judged by precisely the same standards that they are judged by.
     
  20. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    What are my "underlying motives"? Please enlighten us all.
     

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