Paying to have your DL work done

I should pay attention to what I have typed...

I meant that an exam was mailed to an approved proctor (by application)....

 

The answer is known to all of us.

Many working adults are not looking to have more complications but actually for the easier way to graduate. Its easier to take an exam late night on line then setting up time to visit library or college.

DL providers traditional B&M and non traditional can enroll more students if the flexibility is there, so there is financial side to this. Competing over potential students.
Investment in classes then failure is frighting many DL learners.

Customer needs are driving the DL providers to accommodate such flexibility and today there is a compromise that allows mixed environment.
I think in such competition the traditional side has a point, they have ammunition to a degree as they to are very heavily involved in DL.

 

who's been carded on their first day in any b&m class?

"jason macguire?"

"here!"

"uh, jason, may i please see two forms of ID before we call the next name in the roll?"

The problem in theory extends to both online and b&m.

 

Very good point and it's ridiculous for someone to believe that it's any harder to do this at a B&M school. Now some of the smaller classes might be an issue but in my experience I cannot recall a single instructor that called roll.

 

What?

How much effort (and money) does it take to hire a person local to a school and have them physically attend at least the exams, if not other class sessions as well.

Now think about how much effort and money it takes to take some University of Phoenix exam and post it to a homework help site where a highly educated person from India will complete it for not much more than US minimum wage.

One of these things is very clearly easier than the other.

 

I disagree. It might be more costly to do it but it's not any harder. The ease in which I am referring to is the likelyhood of getting caught cheating. I understand it may cost more but you are not paying someone to attend the course. You are paying someone to take the exam. I don't think anyone could debate that it's easier to log into a website but I'm focusing on the ease of cheating as a whole. Individual factors like cost will certainly affect the outcome but even B&M courses have canned classes at the undergrad level. I guess I should have been more specific. Point is anyone willing to go to the lengths to cheat can do so in a B&M setting or online.

**EDIT** Also I was unaware of any specific costs involved such as your Phoenix example. My focus was paying an individual student just like you would in a B&M setting.

 

While the Troy University proctored exam device has met with some criticism, I found it an effective tool. During proctored testing (generally one exam per course), the camera records a 360 degree of the testing area and it requires your fingerprint and picture to access the exam. It is probable that a person could fradulently enroll from the start; however, the school does have a record of your image for comparison.

Of course, there is no easy answers to ending fraud, but it is interesting to see schools responding to this threat. Regardless of instruction method, a dishonest person will always find a method to "cheat" the system; nonetheless, in cases of academic dishonesty, the dishonest only succeed in cheating themselves.

 

Some schools are going to a hand reader on the first day (with ID checked, then on all test days (even other classes where attending is part of the grade). It is cost effective at schools that have 200 students in a class.

 

No, Mr. Golden, the author, seemed to know exactly what he was doing. He used the ridiculous and false example of the "5-week" UoP associates degree for its shock value. He knew that the student would have to transfer in 4 years worth of credits (minus one class) before doing the "5-week associates." Using his standard, the "Big 3" (Excelsior, Thomas Edison and Charter Oak) offer "1 day" associates and bachelors, since you can do 100% of the coursework previously at other colleges. Golden appears to hate both non-profits and the admissions patterns of elite schools (even though his own bachelors is from Harvard).

 

Cheating occurs online and F2F (and during proctored tests). We can occassionally use technology to detect it, but the only way that we can prevent it is to change people's culture into one of honesty. We do not possess technology to do that.

For large distance learning programs with thousands of students, setting up proctoring sites for all students can be quite difficult, time-consuming and costly.

 

I heard a discussion (I believe it was on the Diane Rehm show on NPR) in which some educators were making claims that cheating and plagiarism is not at any higher level than it was 40 or 50 years ago. But from what I've informally read and heard of from college and high school students I talk to, I find that really difficult to believe.

Some parents are so anxious for their children to do well that they actually write their papers for them (I have no idea how this works for in-class exams). Everyone's favorite laughingstock Sheila Danzig was running ads for her own term paper library website on her equally questionable MIGS graduate school website. Accusations of all sorts of academic dishonesty at Ivy League schools run rampant, in spite of strict "honor codes."

You really begin to wonder, 20 years from now, if much of anyone will know much of anything.

But as for the 5 week AA... I do think a lot of people who don't understand distance learning confuse *learning* equivalent to an AA degree with *evaluation* to verify learning equivalent to an AA. Certainly the former cannot be accomplished in 5 weeks, but the latter is quite possible, and I think that's a common misconception with people writing about DL.

 

Did this include extensive APL? The military can often receive a good deal of credit for what they learn in training etc.

 

I agree. Some people hear online, and they equate that to fast and easy. I have a friend who is a self taught computer IT genius, as well as a highly skilled machinist. He decided he was going to enroll at Cal Coast because he thought it would be super easy. Once he found out all the course and writing involved in obtaining a degree (after an eval), his enthusiasm waned. That was five or six years ago and he still has no degree.

Moreover to your point. He failed to realize that I finished my degree in about 1 year because I transferred in an RA AA degree, plus MANY units from several RA unis, in addition to several CLEPS and DANTES. All he thought he heard was it took me 1 year to complete all courswork. A case of selective hearing.

Abner

 

I'm sorry to say but the cost and logistics seems to be a lame excuse for avoiding proctored exams. How is that old traditional schools like UNISA manage to set up centres in different continents? How is that British schools have practiced this for decades but all of the sudden it is just too hard to accomplish.

I don;t buy this, the main reason to avoid proctored exams is to attract students. Most students would want to avoid the inconvenience of having to travel to an examination centre and actually study for the exam. Schools know that if they want to compete for students they should avoid proctored exams.

 

Someone who finds it inconvenient to arrange a proctor is not necessarily someone who is not willing to study. That will not change no matter how many times you repeat it.

 

True but also as online instructor, you cannot just decide to challenge the student because his or her final grade was too high compared to his or her average. This would be just too hard to probe and not worth your time.

 

My point exactly. And FYI, it's somewhere between difficult and impossible to find a proctor across state lines. Looks like I'll be taking another CLEP to overwrite that class.

 

I do not agree with your insinuation that most online students cheat on exams. That is insulting to those on Degreeinfo (and elsewhere) who have worked hard and honestly for their degrees and were able to complete them, thanks to DL.

I certainly have nothing bad to say about UNISA, however, for the student who happens to live in one of the 33 states that does not have a UNISA Examination Centre or who lives hundres of miles away in a state that does, I guess they are just out of luck. Of course a university that does not require that you drive half a day to take your exams would be more attractive than one that does