Non ABA DL LAW SCHOOL & Federal Law

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by Pilot, Oct 1, 2009.

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  1. Pilot

    Pilot Member

    Hello,
    I have a question regarding California Non-ABA DL Law shools?
    As far as I know, Non Aba California DL lawyers are not allowed to practice in other states.
    But Non Aba California DL lawyers are allowed to practice FEDERAL Law, so In theory such lawyers will be allowed to practice for Example Immigration Law, in any 50 states.
    Am I correct?
    Thank you much
    I am actually thinking about going in to Law school if that's the case
     
  2. Dude

    Dude New Member

    In theory? Yes. In practice? Not always.

    If you want to practice in the federal court system, each district has its own rules. Some require you to be a member of the state's bar in the state where the court is located, and some require that you only be admitted in ANY state.

    There have been several battles between state bar associations and people who have tried to practice federal law in a state in which they were not admitted. The results have not always been consistent.

    As always, do your homework before counting on anything!

    Good luck!
     
  3. Pilot

    Pilot Member

    Hello,
    Thanks for the answer.
    I just called Abraham Lincoln University in California and spoke to an advisor.
    He informed that as a california lawyer one would have to apply to practice federal law, no exams necessary mainly paperwork & fees and from that would be allowed to practice federal law in any district.
    He explained that the states have no juridiction over the federal courts.
    An authorization from every state is necessary to ensure that you are not practicing unlawfully.
    Can anyone shed some light on this and confirm that it is indeed the case?
    Thank you much
     
  4. Pilot

    Pilot Member

    One more question does sanybody know about a list of California DL law school with a ranking based on historical pass rate for the baby bar & cal bar?
    Or did anyone attend one of the DL law school? Can you please share you experience?
    Thanks a bunch
     
  5. Ted Heiks

    Ted Heiks Moderator and Distinguished Senior Member

    You might check Bears' Guide, which has a chapter on Law Schools with a chart of pass rates for both the baby bar and the regular bar exams.
     
  6. Pilot

    Pilot Member

  7. CalDog

    CalDog New Member

    I am not an attorney, but for whatever it's worth, here's how I see it:

    Immigration attorneys can represent clients before the US Citizen and Immigration Services (formerly known as the US Immigration and Naturalization Service, or INS). According to USCIS, an attorney "must be a member in good standing of the bar of a U.S. State (or U.S. possession, territory, Commonwealth, or the District of Columbia) and not be under any court order restricting their practice of law."

    So if you got a California DL law degree and passed the California Bar exam, then yes, you should be able to act as an immigration attorney and represent clients before the USCIS. You could do this in California (as a member of the CA bar), or you could do it in other states (since the USCIS is a federal agency and is not subject to state licensing laws). My guess only.

    But I see a possible problem: in practice, it seems possible that clients who face immigration issues might also face other legal challenges as well (involving things like child custody, employment, taxes, etc). These kinds of legal issues could be totally beyond the scope of the USCIS (which primarily deals with immigration status) and they could involve state laws (rather than federal laws). In this case, you would be completely unable to advise or assist your clients on these matters, since you would not be a member of the state bar (unless you were in California).
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 1, 2009
  8. Dude

    Dude New Member

    He is correct that the states have no jurisdiction over the federal courts. SOME federal districts require that to practice in their district an attorney also needs to be a member of THAT specific state bar. It is a case by case basis. The best advice I can give is for you to read the rules of any federal district court in which you may be interested in practicing in the future. Be aware, however, that just because the rules are set one way today, there may be a completly different scenario four years from now.
     
  9. cbkent

    cbkent Member

    I'm a California licensed attorney, and will share my experience with this question. This information is not specific advice for your situation.

    It is not correct that you can practice any type of federal law in any jurisdiction once admitted in California. Some US District Courts limit admission to attorneys admitted to practice in the state where they are located. Some extend this to neighboring states. Others will admit attorneys in good standing from any state. This information is generally available online at the Court site, and it is subject to change. You can usually find it under "local rules" and once in the rules, look for attorney admissions.

    It is possible, if qualified in science or engineering, to become a patent attorney, under the aegis of the USPTO. The USPTO, the IRS, and some administrative agencies, also have provisions for non-attorneys to be admitted to practice before them. Some DL JDs who are not admitted attorneys practice under these qualifications.

    The District of Columbia has specific rules regarding the practice of federal law by persons not admitted in DC. See: http://www.dcappeals.gov/dccourts/docs/rule49.pdf

    Be wary of advice offered by DL schools regarding the practice of federal law. As a prospective student, I was told that after admission in California, "You can practice federal law anywhere." Such a statement is, IMO, overbroad and misleading.

    Before making a commitment, I would encourage you to contact the court(s) or agencies to which you seek admission to practice.

    Disclaimer--This is not legal advice, and no attorney-client relationship is established. Contact local counsel for specific legal advice.
     
  10. cbkent

    cbkent Member

  11. David Boyd

    David Boyd New Member

    CbKent's advice is right on.

    This questions comes up many times and unfortunately there is no clear one size fits all answer.

    First, as noted, some Federal courts require by rule that the attorney be admitted in the state where the Federal court is located or file a motion to permit a special appearance by the out-of-state attorney.

    While it may be true that states have no power over Federal courts and in many instances Federal courts will permit any licensed attorney to appear before it, states do have the power to regulate commerce within their borders.

    So while a California licensed attorney may be permitted to practice before a Federal court in another state, the other state may be able to prevent a California attorney from opening an office within its borders and advertising to its residents that legal services are being offered - even if the practice is limited to Federal courts.

    The issue is further complicated by the fact each state has its own definition of what constitutes the practice of law.

    My recommendation would be to contact the state bar in the state you wish to work and find out their position.
     
  12. tomball

    tomball New Member

    One of them is located in Glendale, don't remember name?
     
  13. 1Lstudent

    1Lstudent New Member

    Check with the bar where you intend to practice federal law. As others have stated, you may need to be a member of your state's bar to be admitted to your federal bar as a general member. I am also considering immigration law, but was told by my district court that I'd have to be a member of my state's bar for full membership. I'm still looking into this, but it is my understanding that I may be able to process applications (as per USCIS) but it appears that that will be all that I will be able to do. But that will still severely limit my ability to practice. If I have a client, for instance, who's denied asylum I'd have to pass the client over to someone who's a full member to argue issues of constitutionality, et c., since it would be outside my realm. That's not to mention the other issues another poster pointed out, such as child custody, any pending criminal issues, et c.

    Be mindful of what a school will tell you- they have a vested interest in selling their program.

    The bottom is to research and investigate the issue fully before making a decision. Good luck with it!
     
  14. daniellevine

    daniellevine New Member

    Welcome to the wonderful world of law.
     
  15. sentinel

    sentinel New Member

    You might be interested in this thread which discusses a Concord Law School graduate and bar admission in the state of MA.
     
  16. daniellevine

    daniellevine New Member

    That was an interesting read. Unfortunately it requires each individual to file a lawsuit based on his or her own merits. Personally I would not feel secure that I will be able to sit for the bar unless I am the class valedictorian and receive multiple high honors. I don't understand how the government has allowed the ABA to monopolize this industry for so long. It has resulted in a fixed curriculum; competition is the key force to positive change. It has also resulted in uncompetitive pricing, and many students have to relocate hundreds of miles to find the nearest ABA school.
     
  17. daniellevine

    daniellevine New Member

    sorry, wrong thread.
     

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