Is the GOP a cult?

Discussion in 'Political Discussions' started by Abner, Sep 10, 2009.

Loading...
  1. Abner

    Abner Well-Known Member

  2. sentinel

    sentinel New Member

    "No mandatory exposure to the Antichrist's glowing, hypnotic eyes: "Forsake your families, children, and follow ME!"

    This sums up the answer to the question only too succinctly. The Grand Old Party lives up to its name - old - and shows all the symptoms of a patient suffering from dementia combined with paranoia.
     
  3. jaer57

    jaer57 New Member

    I think an argument can be made that the fringe of both sides can be considered cult-like; partisanship sometimes defies logic. To witness the frenzy on the left of the last 8 years, the frenzy on the right of the previous 8 years, etc., just goes to show that the partisans on both sides will always be the voice that we hear on the evening news, while the silent majority weighs where they sit on the issues as they arise...
     
  4. Ted Heiks

    Ted Heiks Moderator and Distinguished Senior Member

    Does anyone have an official definition of the word cult? :confused: My Sociology of Religion class with Mort Perry at Mesa State College was 26 years ago now, so I'm a bit rusty. :eek:
     
  5. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    I would say that the GOP is not a cult. Cults are supposed to fight to keep people in the cult. The GOP is more likely to say something like, if you vote for health care reform then you're kicked out of the party. Or, if you think it is okay for the President of the United States to tell school kids to work hard then you're kicked out of the party.
     
  6. BillDayson

    BillDayson New Member

    I don't think that words typically have official definitions, they have formal and informal uses that vary over time.

    The word 'cult' comes from the Latin word 'cultus', meaning care or cultivation. In its religious usage, it was essentially the equivalent of the Greek-derived 'liturgy', meaning 'people's work'.

    In academic religious studies, both words formally mean 'customary public veneration' and the rites that tradition prescribes for those occasions. We still see the word 'cult' being used in that sense in phrases like 'cult of the saints'.

    In academic usage, I think that we typically see the word 'liturgy' being applied more often in formal Christian ecclesiastical contexts, while 'cult' appears more often in studies of non-christian religions, particularly the ancient ones, and in descriptions of traditional devotional practices among the people at large.

    In more popular informal usage during the second half of the 20'th century, the word 'cult' has increasingly come to mean 'unorthodox, extreme or false sects'. So out there on the street, the word 'cult' has taken on an increasingly perjorative connotation that didn't used to exist.

    We see some fundamentalist/evangelical Protestants giving their own spin to it as well, defining 'cult' to mean any religious expression that isn't consistent with their own idea of Biblical truth. That's the sense that the word takes in 'cult-busting' and in the 'anti-cult movement', and it's why things like the LDS church and sometimes the Roman Catholics are labeled 'cults' by religious militants.

    There's an even broader and more secular late 20'th century popular usage of 'cult' as well, where it means something like 'underground cool', as in 'cult film'. I guess the connection there is religious-like devotion. This new usage is kind of positive, suggesting sophistication.
     
  7. BillDayson

    BillDayson New Member

    The short answer is 'no'.

    To extremists on the left, it might appear to be. The far-left almost certainly believes the Republican party to be an 'unorthodox, extreme and false sect', so the popular perjorative definition of 'cult' probably does apply in their eyes.

    It's not unlike how the far-right perceives the Democrats, actually.

    I prefer to remain a more thoughtful moderate.
     
  8. Abner

    Abner Well-Known Member

    I would say the far right has militant elements that invoke anti Americanism and religion quite effectively. Within minutes, words uttered by some talking head can be heard being used word for word on radio, TV, newspapers, etc. by loyal foot soldiers. Suddenly not wearing an American flag pin at all times is a national emergency.

    During the eight years of Bush, we saw excellent examples of a party acting in unison and lockstep, not necessarily in the best interest of the country. This is in contrast to the Democratic party, that is often said to be like herding cats. My observation is that of the two parties, the Dems will question and even defy their leaders. Does this make them perfect or correct all of the time? Certainly not.

    But I digress. We appear to be specifying fringe groups. I would like to cite your quote:

    Bill Dayson
    "We see some fundamentalist/evangelical Protestants giving their own spin to it as well, defining 'cult' to mean any religious expression that isn't consistent with their own idea of Biblical truth. That's the sense that the word takes in 'cult-busting' and in the 'anti-cult movement', and it's why things like the LDS church and sometimes the Roman Catholics are labeled 'cults' by religious militants."

    I agree with your characterization of the intermingling between Evangelicals (Aka Born Agains once seen as cults in the U.S.) attempting to characterize RC's as devil worshipers for example, due to the fact that they utilize Saints. The much CA acclaimed Greg Lorrie has made comments comparing certain aspects of the RC to devil worship. So what do you do? Mobilize millions of pliable Evangelicals with code words in order to protest, mobilize and win elections al a Karl Rove. You then have a cult like mentality in that respect. People are brainwashed to believe anyone who does not subscribe to the ALL American Christian view is unAmerican. Leaders then use words like crusade to further feed meat to the followers seeking a false messiah. What does this do? It leads extremists to believe they are more American and more moral if they are neo cons.

    Just my humble opinion and observation.

    Abner
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 10, 2009
  9. BillDayson

    BillDayson New Member

    I thought that the right was supposed to be guilty of wrapping themselves in the flag. Now they are supposed to be anti-American, because they aren't obediently falling into line behind Obama's messianic calls for "Change"?

    The reality is that the American right is critical of big, controlling and paternalistic government. That's a position that Europeans would call 'liberal' and contrast with 'socialist'. It's only 'anti-American' to those who identify the federal government with the country itself.

    You're the one who posted a provocative thread title along with a link to 'Salon', an opinion outlet on the left.

    There was more intellectual and ideological variety among the Republican presidential primary candidates last year than among their Democratic counterparts. The eventual Republican nominee was the individual who was probably most distant from the the left's dismissive 'religious-right' stereotype. Meanwhile, the Democrats were nominating the champion of their left-wing base and basking in the uncritical and fawning adulation of the media 'talking heads'.

    I think that in real-life, as opposed to the fantasies of political ideology, things bon't break down all that neatly into us-and-them, into the good-guys and the bad-guys.

    Both parties have their extremists. Both parties are often depicted as if they consist of nothing else in the opposing party's rhetoric. Both parties have their pragmatists and realists who don't always side with their own party's militant factions. Both parties have congressional organizations and try to enforce party discipline in order to pass or defeat bills.
     
  10. Abner

    Abner Well-Known Member

     
  11. Abner

    Abner Well-Known Member

     
  12. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator

    From the OED:

    1. Worship; reverential homage rendered to a divine being or beings. Obs. (exc. as in sense 2).

    1617 COLLINS Def. Bp. Ely II. ix. 371 You tell vs most absurdly of a diuine cult..for so cult you are, or so quilted in your tearmes. Ibid. 380 You..referre it to the cult that you so foolishly talked of. 1657-83 EVELYN Hist. Relig. (1850) II. 39 God, abolishing the cult of Gentile idols. 1683 D.A. Art Converse 92 That Sovereign Cult due to God only.
    2. a. A particular form or system of religious worship; esp. in reference to its external rites and ceremonies.

    1679 PENN Addr. Prot. II. App. 245 Let not every circumstantial difference or Variety of Cult be Nick-named a new Religion. 1699 SHAFTESBURY Charac., Inq. conc. Virtue I. III. §2 In the Cult or Worship of such a Deity. 1850 GLADSTONE Homer II. 211 While she [Proserpine] has a cult or worship on earth, he [Aidoneus] apparently has none. 1859 L. OLIPHANT China & Japan I. xii. 242 They are devoted in their attentions to the objects of their culte. 1874 MAHAFFY Soc. Life Gr. xi. 350 The cult of Aphrodite.
    b. Now freq. used attrib. by writers on cultic ritual and the archæology of primitive cults.

    1901 A. J. EVANS Mycen. Tree & Pillar Cult 25 Aniconic Cult Images. Ibid. 77 Cult Scenes relating to a Warrior God and his Consort. 1903 Folk-lore Sept. 264 The image of the patron deity, usually a simple copy of the cult statue. Ibid. 269 Inscriptions found at various cult-centres. 1904 Hastings's Dict. Bible V. 118/1 The female Divinity must be represented by the female animal, in order to carry out the mythological tale or the cult-act. 1906 D. G. HOGARTH in Proc. Brit. Acad. 1905-6 375 Small objects dedicated in that temple, among which are several cult-figurines of the Goddess. 1928 PEAKE & FLEURE Steppe & Sown 104 Already in Early Minoan times the double axe had become, not only a symbol of authority, but a cult object. a1930 D. H. LAWRENCE Apocalypse (1931) vii. 117 Cult-lore was the wisdom of the old races. 1950 H. L. LORIMER Homer & Monum. vi. 349 The earliest cult-image of the goddess. 1950 Scott. Jrnl. Theol. III. 368 The rôle of the king in the great cult-drama at the beginning of every new year. 1957 Antiquity & Survival II. 167/1 Near it a cult mask, made of clay, was still lying on the floor... In a further room, we discovered a unique cult-standard..made of bronze, with a tang to fasten it to a pole.
    3. transf. Devotion or homage to a particular person or thing, now esp. as paid by a body of professed adherents or admirers.

    1711 SHAFTESBURY Charac. III. i. (1737) I. 281 Convinc'd of the Reality of a better Self, and of the Cult or Homage which is due to It. 1829 A. W. FONBLANQUE England Under 7 Admin. (1837) I. 238 These cults are generally to be found in the same house. 1879 Q. Rev. Apr. 368 The cult of beauty as the most vivid image of Truth. 1889 John Bull 2 Mar. 141/2 An evidence of the decay of the Wordsworth cult.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    DRAFT ADDITIONS MAY 2004


    cult, n. and adj.2

    A relatively small group of people having religious beliefs or practices regarded by others as strange or sinister.

    1927 Appleton (Wisconsin) Post-Crescent 10 Oct. 18/1 Evidence that the strange burial of a youthful ‘priestess’ of the religious cult..may have been preceded by ritualistic and unreported burials of other cult members..sent investigators today to widely separated spots in the mountains of southern California. 1957 Amer. Sociol. Rev. 22 561/2 An opportunity to study public reaction to a man whose small band of followers regarded him as Christ (and who himself acknowledged that status) arose... We were able to..facilitate fairly systematic study of this embryonic cult. 1976 Newsweek (Nexis) 14 June 60 Unlike the Eastern cults that form around gurus, the Moonies make it psychologically difficult for their followers to leave. 1980 Amer. Jrnl. Sociol. 85 1377 Cults.., like other deviant social movements, tend to recruit people with a grievance, people who suffer from some variety of deprivation. 1994 W. SHAW Spying in Guru Land (1995) p. xi, He introduced many of them to ‘astral travelling’; in mild trance states they would ‘leave their bodies’ and return with more dreams and myths to add to the growing lore of the cult.
    Designating cultural phenomena with a strong, often enduring appeal to a relatively small audience; (also) designating this appeal or audience, or any resultant success; fringe, non-mainstream. Hence: possessing a fashionable or exclusive cachet; spec. (of artistic figures or works) having a reputation or influence disproportionate to their limited public exposure or commercial success. Freq. in cult figure, cult status.

    1961 R. HEPPENSTALL Fourfold Trad. II. ii. 145 This is asking a lot of the general reader and helps to keep Ulysses in its curious position as a cult book. 1968 Punch 3 July 32/2 There has been a small cult-following for [Nathanael] West. 1970 Times 5 Nov. 14/6 There is some part of her in all of us, so that whatever our reaction to her, it cannot be one of indifference. It is easy to see how she could diminish into a fashionable cult-figure. 1976 Scotsman 20 Nov. (Weekend Suppl.) 3/1 The fact that it became something of a cult book should not be held against its author now. 1985 Music Week 2 Feb. (Advt. Suppl.), Bauhaus..achieved the highest level of cult success in the UK from '81-'83, with four silver albums. 1991 Twenty Twenty Spring 92/3 Tolkien's Lord of the Rings..became a major publishing phenomenon when its late Sixties Ballantine paperback edition attained campus cult status. 1993 Boulevard Spring 25 Eraserhead was a midnight cult movie, but Blue Velvet was the movie that made Lynch famous. 2000 F. WALKER in J. Adams et al. Girls' Night In 39 Last year's pop sensation Ruby ‘Red’ Richmond had been supposedly in lurve with cult actor Slim Tim Gorman for several weeks.
     
  13. Tom H.

    Tom H. New Member

    Ironic?

    Wouldn't it be ironic if after all the money and efforts we spent to defeat communism, the American public freely and willingly agreed to allow their democratically elected leaders transform the country by following the economic model of the failed Eastern European communist states? Government run auto manufacturers produced cars no one wanted and government run health care was provided by doctors and nurses whose work ethic and motivation rivaled those of the factory worker.

    The Democrats never challenge their leaders except when their leaders want to compromise and aren't radical enough!
     
  14. Tom57

    Tom57 Member

    There's certainly an argument to be made about whether the automakers should have been bailed out, but they are not government run. Government funded, for the time being.

    I guess your second point is that factory workers have poor work ethics and motivation, and that, doctors and nurses will deteriorate to the same level with national health care? Would this be different from the current state of dissatisfaction among doctors in the present system? Talk to an emergency room doctor about how well the current system works - especially on a Friday night. My own doctor has given up honoring insurance of any kind to free himself from the endless paperwork and the continuous pressure of keeping all appointments to 15 minutes or less. Is this the system you would like to keep? As for me, to cover my family of 4 for health and vision costs me north of $11,000 per year. This on a teacher's salary, where my employer covers the cost for me only. I am technically insured, but premiums amount to nearly a second mortgage payment. Nice system.

    I'm always amazed at how conservatives sort of and pick and choose the things they deplore in the government, but then decry the entire government as needless and wasteful. Postal service is bad. Government-run health care is bad. Taxes are bad. Would you like to give up your social security benefits? Grannie's medicare? Would you like to give up interstate highways? The NIH? The CDC? Government run military? National Parks (do away with Yosemite damn it!)?
     
  15. Abner

    Abner Well-Known Member

    One of the main reasons for foreclosures and bankruptcies are due to medical reasons. Many times the person has coverage, but the deductibles are so high, and the caps so low they have to refinance their homes. That coupled with insurance companies dropping or denying people for prexisting conditions is just out of control. On top of this, adjusters are given bonuses for finding ANY way to deny your claim. What a great system hah? Oh no! We must not regulate those poor companies. It is a government takeover I tell you. Yeah right.

    How do I know all this stuff? I was an Adjuster for major insurance companies. Let me tell you folks, don't shed any tears over these corporations. Even the staunchest ultra conservative will CRY like a baby when a major claim is denied. Suddenly they want to know where the government protection is. Trust me, I saw it. I ultimately left that business in disgust. I also informed the Insurance commisioner of a few things.

    Just food for thought.

    Abner
     
  16. 03310151

    03310151 Active Member

    Are they a cult? Depends on who you are I suppose. Most of us on this board probably would like to envision ourselves as moderates, or at least people who try and see both sides and have reasoned arguements with facts (not emotion) based arguements, citing sources, etc. But we know this much to be true...It fits me on the right, just as much as it fits you, Abner, on the left.

    If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way.

    Bertrand Russell.

    So when you go to Salon.com you are not looking for information, you are looking for affirmation. Just like when I go to more convervative type information sources.

    I also wanted to apologize for the way I came off in the gun thread, As I look back it was way to much emotion on my part.

    Later,

    Cory
     
  17. Ian Anderson

    Ian Anderson Active Member

    You forgot to include heath insurance premiums included in just about everything you spend money on including taxes, gas, utilities, food, airfares, etc. - I read somewhere that is around 10% of what you spend. So even the reported 40 million people without health insurance pay for someone elses health care.
     
  18. Abner

    Abner Well-Known Member

    No apology needed Cory. Truth is I like your style and honesty. So many act as if they are completely unbiased moderates as you say. They would like to imagine that they can see both ways/sides with cold sterility. However, I always see those individuals sway to one side (sometimes rather heatedly), and it is always the same side. Let's not kid ourselves. We are all partisan. Any man who does not admit this is delusional. We are molded by what we have experienced as human beings. This of course determines how we each view life, and the philosophies that will be followed. For example, if a persons wife was denied health care and she died, would her husband not be pasionate about health care reform? Of course. Could anybody blame him? I hope not. If my parents were not allowed to buy in a "white" (whatever white is) neighborhood when I was little, would this not make me passionate about equal rights for all? Of course. You see were I am going. Like any human, I am a man who was/is created by his experiences and observations. Of course, the goal is to evolve along with changing times and situations in the pursuit of personal growth.

    Despite each of our views, regardless of how passionate, we should treat each other as brothers and sisters. I have had some real knockdown rock em sock em political discussions on this board, only to have those same ultra right wing posters turn around and help me when I need advice regarding school. I have done the same in return. We should hear each others views and try to respect each other, even if we do not agree with one another. So never be afraid to say what you want to say brother.

    Take it easy and wish me luck tomorrow. I have butterflies and acid in my stomach because I am taking a 4 hour MBA final tomorrow. Off to the firing squad bright and early.

    Abner :)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 25, 2009
  19. 03310151

    03310151 Active Member


    4 Hour Final? Holy Crap! Good luck to you, I would be stressed to the max, but I am sure you will do fine. You got a treat in mind for yourself once you complete it? I think completing an MBA would warrant an iPod Touch or something like that, especially since they dropped the price.

    Take care,

    Cory
     
  20. Abner

    Abner Well-Known Member

    I took the final yesterday, but I still have to do the capstone. I want to breeze right through the capstone as fast as I can. It is hard because I have been super busy. Once I have everything done, it will be PARTY time!!!!!!!!!!! Boy, this MBA stuff has been tough as hell. I knew it would be, but I am exhausted. After that final yesterday I came home and passed out! I hope I pass.

    As a reward I am buying myself a big ass flat screen! Yeah baby!!!!!

    Have a good weekend!

    Abner :)
     

Share This Page