question/thoughts...

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by filmguy, May 17, 2009.

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  1. filmguy

    filmguy New Member

    I recently posted on another forum asking about some advice and I feel that I was treated very badly by some of the regular members on there.

    I told them that I would like to eventually teach at the CC level and am currently working on completely my online MA degree with an eye towards furthering my studies at the PhD level. Currently, I teach at a CC outside of the United States and because of financial constraints, it does not seem likely that I will be able to attend a regular B & M university to do my PhD.

    My question to all members for all member is... am I simply delusional in thinking that CC in the United States of America will recognize online degrees when it comes to hiring instructors? The other forum make it seem that the only people who get jobs at CC's are people who have done their PhD's in a regular B & M setting and somehow I find that difficult to believe. While I know my chances will be greatly improved if I attend a regular B & M institution, financially it seems impossible for me to do...

    Is there anyone who can please shed some honest light on this... If online degrees do not lead to employment, why are people taking them other than for personal reasons? There must be some people out there who work at CC's in the United States who have received their MA's from regionally accredited online institutions? No ?
     
  2. John Bear

    John Bear Senior Member

    Thing 1
    As I've mentioned before, my wife did her distance-learning MA in Humanities from Cal State University Dominguez Hills. She later went on to do a residential PhD in philosophy at Vanderbilt (having also been accepted at Harvard, Yale, Pittsburgh, and Chicago). Then she applied for a job teaching philosophy in the California Community College system. She was told that in this system, a Ph.D. in philosophy does not qualify one to teach philosophy. Because philosophy is taught in the Humanities division, one must have a Master's in Humanities. Thankfully she did . . . and taught happily at Berkeley City College for 15 years.

    Thing 2
    My higher education books have been tremendously interactive. A great many letters and emails from readers, asking questions and sharing experiences. In all the many years I did this, I don't recall ever hearing from a reader saying that his or her distance or online degree prevented him or her from getting a job. Of course when 3 or 400 people apply for the same job -- not an uncommon number -- there are many reasons (or combinations of reasons) most people are turned down. On the other side of the ledger, I used to hear fairly regularly from people who corroborated the findings of the major Sosdian & Sharp study on the acceptance of distance degrees, saying that the online degree was especially helpful, since the employer liked the idea of people who could work independently and efficiently.

    John Bear
    Bear's Guide to Earning Degrees by Distance Learning

    PS: I'm sorry you had a bad experience on another forum. If it was degreediscussion.com, it is hard to imagine that a regular would treat you or this issue badly, with the lone exception of the loose cannon initialed "SL."
     
  3. Ian Anderson

    Ian Anderson Active Member

    You previously asked a similar question here:
    http://www.degreeinfo.com/showthread.php?t=30958

    I'm sorry to say this but I think your chances of getting a CC position in the near future is bleak. Colleges around the country are cutting back on hiring with the current economic situation. In California both CC and K-12 schools are laying teachers off. My local CC canceled their winter term completely this year.

    I don't think that your having a DL degree is a handicap but other relative experience is very important. When I was interviewed for my local CC they liked that I had taught classes as part of my job, had several decades of related experience, and taught Microsoft Flight Simulator at a local aircraft museum.
    I was one of ten people interviewed but did not get the job.
     
  4. filmguy

    filmguy New Member

    Thank you JB,

    The forum in question can be found at:http://chronicle.com/forums/index.php/topic,60461.0.html

    I am very appreciative of your advice because the majority of members are making it appear as though I have no chance of securing a teaching position at the community college level in the United States without a degree from a regular B & M institution. While I would prefer to go this route, there are numerous factors that prevent me from attending such an institution including cost which is a big part of it.

    Currently, I am completely an online degree from an regionally accredited institution that is in California. I hope to soon complete my studies and get my MA degree in English literature so that I can at least think about furthering my studies at the PhD level in either Film Studies or English. I am worried because if what some say is correct, it sounds as though I would be wasting time and money if I were to go that route and not land a teaching position which is really my prime objective. I realize that some institutions may look down about online degrees but the sad truth is that I am rather limited to studying online and must therefore make the right choices...

    Since you appear to be a very kind and knowledgeable individual (especially after what I have gone through on other forums) I am curious if you can please share some insights into National University (online MA in English Literature) and the University of Exeter (online PhD in Film Studies)... I do not wish to impose further but I feel that I am at a crossroads and wish to make the right decision... Thanks in advance
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 6, 2018
  5. Ian Anderson

    Ian Anderson Active Member

     
  6. Ted Heiks

    Ted Heiks Moderator and Distinguished Senior Member

    Which of the distance learning boards verbally abused you? I couldn't find it.
     
  7. filmguy

    filmguy New Member

    thanks for all of your help... the board/forum in question is:

    http://chronicle.com/forums/index.php/topic,60461.30.html
     
  8. filmguy

    filmguy New Member

    I appreciate you not "sugar coating" things when it comes to teaching at the CC level. I am going to complete my online MA degree and will see if I can find a way to enroll in a regular B & M PhD program as I am very fearful that an online PhD will not help me achieve my employment goals of working at an American CC.

    On another note, there is an Masters in Education from Kent State University offered at a satellite campus where I am located that I am thinking of doing since it may help me either find a better job or get into a PhD program... thoughts?
     
  9. Chip

    Chip Administrator

    Keep in mind that the Chronicle of Higher Education mirrors the higher education community in its readership and presumably those who participate on its forums.

    Since the higher education community is disproportionately composed of professors and adjuncts who work at bricks-and-mortar schools, most of whom graduated from bricks-and-mortar programs, it makes perfect sense to me that, on the whole, they would probably be more skeptical of *any* distance learning programs because (a) it wasn't what they did; (b) it may be seen as threatening to their bricks-and-mortar schools, and therefore their jobs.

    I have nothing to back this up, other than comparisions with other professional fields. Medicine, for example, traditionally ran interns ragged, working them 120 or more hours a week in some cases, and when New York considered changing the regulations to prohibit this, all hell broke loose, in part because all the physicians said "Well, we had to do this, they should have to also"... and I think something similar applies; a lot of people have the perception that distance/online degrees are "quick-and-dirty" and inferior to traditional degrees, and while there are cases where this is true, the same can certainly be said for various less-than-rigorous-but-still-regionally-accredited schools that exist in various places.

    In short, I think you probably touched a nerve and got angry responses from people that don't like the idea of competition from people perceived to have "inferior" degrees. Though, I agree also with Ian; I have also heard that competition is beyond insane for even less-than-desirable part-time lecturer positions in many areas, and so anything you can do to set yourself apart from the crowd, and give you a perceived advantage will definitely help.
     
  10. filmguy

    filmguy New Member

    Thanks... I agree that I probably did hurt a nerve and that there obviously still exists a certain bias against online degrees which is very unfortunate because they do fill a certain niche and I am very pleased with my experiences thus far...
     
  11. dlady

    dlady Active Member

    I have an online DBA and teach at my local CC, as a matter of fact I am heading there for my 8AM class right now.
     
  12. filmguy

    filmguy New Member

    Thanks for sharing D...

    This raises a very interesting question... do people think that some distances degrees are perceived as being different or more credible than others. That is to say, is an online degree in the Humanities viewed as being somewhat inferior than an online degree in Business? I feel that some institutions may think this way because they believe that more interaction should be required for a Humanities Degree and as such, believe that an online degree in some ways is lacking. Thoughts?

    I am also curious as to if you obtained your position at the CC before your online DBA and if your MA was also obtained online as this would tend to give some of us hope that an online MA can lead to full-time teaching position.
     
  13. marf1273

    marf1273 New Member

    I don’t think pursuing an online post graduate degree is a disadvantage to anybody wanting to work as a teacher. If you can get high grades and have previous experience relevant to the post you’re targeting, I don’t see any reason why you won’t be considered a good potential.
     
  14. filmguy

    filmguy New Member

    Thanks M,

    I tend to agree with you as there are still parts of me that feel that it is possible to land a full-time teaching position at an American CC with a only an online MA. I agree that grades would have to be exceptional and obviously experience would be another tremendous asset. I realize that to some, it may appear that I am trying to convince myself of things that are untrue but I just don't feel as though every full-time teaching position at a CC is held by PhD from a regular B & M school...
     
  15. filmguy

    filmguy New Member

    There are some of the comments that I have received from another forum:

     
  16. japhy4529

    japhy4529 House Bassist

    Wow! No wonder your getting a bit discouraged. My advice to you is to finish up with your online MA in English Lit. through National Univ. National Univ. is a regionally accredited institution with B&M campuses spread throughout California and Nevada. Are they most prestigious school around? No, not even close. But are they accredited and relatively well respected? Yes. Will a degree from this school allow you to compete for CC jobs in the U.S.? I don't know the answer to this question, but my guess is that it will. It will certainly allow you to compete for online adjunct positions at RA and NA schools. If you're really concerned about the possible utility of this degree, then start contacting CCs in the U.S. and ask them this very question.

    Regarding the question about whether or not to pursue an online doctorate in Film Studies via Exter. Exeter is a very well regarded school, so I don't see any issues with obtaining a degree (however it is obtained), from this institution. Also, just think about your chances of landing a teaching gig without having a graduate degree in the subject!

    Best of luck to you!
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 20, 2009
  17. filmguy

    filmguy New Member

    Thanks J,

    I do tend to share your view that any means of upgrading your academic qualifications (within reason) can only help one's chances of getting a suitable teaching position. My first love is for Film Studies and I am leaning more toward Exeter because they appear to be a very reputable/credible institution. I am also considering English if only because there are more jobs available in that field. Truth be told, I still find it rather disheartening as to how some still perceive online degrees but I guess there is no convincing others who are either simply stubborn or perhaps fearful that with more graduates with online degrees, the increase in competition for their jobs which I think is part of their animosity.

    As an aside, even Harvard is now offering online MA's through their Extension program which makes me think that some of the thinking that was expressed in those posts is really irrational

    I am trying to see if there is a way that I can research how many graduates of Exeter are teaching in the US... any ideas as to how I can do this without contacting the university directly?
     
  18. Chip

    Chip Administrator

    Why not contact them directly? Most schools have no problems sharing whatever info they have about what their graduates are doing, and with Exeter, I wouldn't worry too much about them padding the information...
     
  19. Ted Heiks

    Ted Heiks Moderator and Distinguished Senior Member

    I'm not surprised that the good folks over at the Chronicle of Higher Education verbally abused you for asking about doctoral studies via distance learning. They tend to focus on bricks & mortar doctoral programs over there. Sorry.
     
  20. filmguy

    filmguy New Member

    No worries... it is good to hear both sides though they do tend to be rather elitist over on the other forum.
     

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