US: No job if you only have an online degree

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by Abner, May 10, 2009.

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  1. Anthony Pina

    Anthony Pina Active Member

    Quite a few of my full-time teaching and administrative colleagues at community colleges have online doctoral degrees. A large number of teaching and administrative colleagues in K-12 have online masters and doctorates.

    At the university level, I am seeing more and more administrators with online doctorates. Full-time tenure-track faculty positions at B&M universities are where you will find the least acceptance of these degrees, although I do know several faculty who were hired in areas where the masters was an acceptable terminal degree and later completed an online doctorate. I have never known a case where the online doctorate was grounds for denial of promotion or tenure.

    As far as adjunct faculty go, I rountinely get solicitations from those with online doctoral degrees. Since I oversee a large online program (20 full degrees, 400+ courses and over 3,000 students) at a B&M university, I have no trouble at all with a qualified teaching candidate who happens to have receive a doctorate at, say, Capella. I find that hose who have been on the "other side" of online classes tend to be more attentive, interactive and competent online instructors.
     
  2. filmguy

    filmguy New Member

    Thanks for the info...

    I think I am going to complete my MA and then see if I can land a teaching position at a CC even if it means teaching college prep classes. Currently, I teach at a CC outside the US so I have the experience, I just need the qualifications. I know that competition is fierce for positions but sometimes it all boils down to timing. Once at a CC, I will do my PhD because I want to learn as much as I can and getting a PhD has always been a long term goal for me. I posted a question about EGS (European Graduate School) and was wondering how a degree from there would be viewed in the US as the school does seem to be very impressive.
     
  3. Princeofska

    Princeofska New Member

    I don't think this is the case at all. Yes, some departments have their dead weight after tenure, but most professors teach their own material. At least in the humanities and Social Sciences, I know very few professors who use more than a few of the publishers' material other than supplements. Teaching is an art, you can't just go read someone else's lectures out loud to people. These full time professors are doing the research and advancing the fields they work in. Tenure provides for freedom of speech and the progression of ideas. Yeah, some people get tenure and quit benefiting the discipline must most continue to work some at greater paces than others. Higher education is not just about teaching, its a combination of the two. Often administrators want the slave labor of a teacher, and the prestige of a researcher. It is a fine balance that one has to strike.

    Also I think your numbers are skewed. 100k for a full prof, even one at 20 years is high across the board. Yes business and some sciences get that, but anyone in "general education" is not making that on average. I went to a very high paid public school and we only had about an average of 2 professors per department making anything close to that.

    And I want to go back to the publishers canned course comment... Maybe that is the way business schools and law schools run, but traditional brick and mortar schools rely much more on the individual professor. What you are describing sounds much more like a UoP or DeVry course across the boards... which as a professor and a student of both ground and online, I really think the lack of flexibility in one of these online schools hurts the overall experience of students.

    anyway, I will stop ranting now.

     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 7, 2018
  4. recruiting

    recruiting Member


    Here is my response to your last statement in the above post. Anyone can get into a public funded B&M Community College just like they do (as you say) at UoP, that is until they flunk out or leave? Actually, failing does not matter in the case of "course" takers, you pay, you play (degree programs are different I'm sure).

    Sooooo, what is the point you were trying to make with that statement? Was it to disparage UoP or Distance Education as a whole, OR was there something else? I'm just curious
     
  5. Delta

    Delta Active Member

    Online versus Distant Learning

    Why does everyone categorize distant learning modes as an "Online degree"?

    I have earned a few degrees through distant learning. The classroom utilized mediums such as blackboard, dreamweaver and included telephone/online chat, online live classrooms, short on campus visits with classroom attendance, computer programs such as Lotus notes, media with CD's and DVD's, proctored exams, practical experiences with mentors and preceptors. Often these schools and programs accept transfer credit from other "on campus" schools, challenge credit and so forth. Even on campus students intermix their degree program with distant learning courses.

    I guess you can call it a "non-traditional degree." However, it is becoming "traditional" to utilize multiple forms of coursework delivery. Even the on campus programs accept term papers and projects through email and have requirements to attend live or recorded lectures. Does that make their degree online?

    Grow up! An accredited college degree is a college degree plain and simple!
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 28, 2009
  6. AUTiger00

    AUTiger00 New Member

    Full disclosure: I completed my MBA at a university ranked in the top 25 by the major publication's rankings (US News, Businessweek, etc).

    Regarding business courses, I would argue that an MBA is better completed in residency as a full-time student, especially if you are attempting to transition into a new career. One of the main benefits of these programs is not the professors, its the interaction with fellow students and the network you build with visiting business professionals, alumni and your classmates. Something you can't do via online coursework. For instance, in my program we did extended trips to major US markets as well as a three week trip to China, all to meet with industry leaders. That's something that can't be done via online education. Anyone can teach themselves what is taught in business school, the big benefit is the connections you make.

    I will also say that my professors taught material based on their research, very little was taught by text books (and the text books we did use were often written by the faculty teaching the course) as my program was case study intensive. All cases either came from Harvard or UVA.

    If you are simply getting the MBA because it is a requirement for further advancement with your employer then a part-time or online program is more than adequate, but for career changers I would always recommend the full-time program if you can afford it.

    Outside of the MBA, I am in complete agreement with you. I think you can get the same result via distance education as long as you invest the time.
     
  7. AUTiger00

    AUTiger00 New Member

    This is completely true, but it doesn't make much sense to me. A person with a MA is completely competent to teach, think of PhD students who begin teaching sections at state universities during their first semester on campus. While there has been a move to hire PhDs at the CC level I don't see the benefit. A PhD doesn't mean you're a good teacher, it demonstrates that you're good at research which community colleges aren't in the business of churning out. If an institution isn't producing original academic research I'm not sure why they are so hung up on their faculty members having a doctorate.
     
  8. Ted Heiks

    Ted Heiks Moderator and Distinguished Senior Member

    By the same token, most small four-year colleges emphasize teaching rather than research. But the reason even community colleges require the PhD nowadays is quite simple: because they can.
     
  9. Griffin

    Griffin Crazy About Psychology

    I think it's because of appearances -- a college can say "75% of our instructors have earned doctorates" on brochures and grant applications. IMO, a Master's-level Biologist with a doctorate in fine arts would be favored over one with just the MS in Biology for that reason.

    You make a lot of excellent observations about business. There are some fields that are better suited to being in-person programs, due to the networking needs of the average student. I think there are some programs that will be at a disadvantage if they went online -- like counseling. Online counseling and clinical psyc programs are at a disadvantage because they put the onus of teaching provider-patient interaction on the internship part of the program. That has a lot of mixed results, I believe, because the student must already know this aspect of the job and a lot of problems that normally would be corrected early are instead at the end of the program.
     
  10. gregjohnson

    gregjohnson New Member

    For the record...

    "About Thomas Edison State College
    Established in 1972, Thomas Edison State College is one of New Jersey’s 12 senior public institutions of higher education and one of the oldest schools in the country designed specifically for adults. The College provides flexible, high-quality, collegiate learning opportunities for self-directed adults....."

    "More than 17,000 students from all 50 states and more than 70 countries around the world attend the College. The average age of our students is 35, and they have chosen Thomas Edison State College because they want to complete their educations at a college that is high quality, accredited and convenient."
    "
    Directions to Campus

    Thomas Edison State College is composed of four buildings located in historic downtown Trenton, N.J.

    * Directions to Main Campus - Kelsey Building and Townhouses, located at 101 West State Street, Trenton, N.J.
    * Directions to the Academic Center, located at 167 West Hanover Street, Trenton, N.J.
    * Directions to the Canal Banks Building, located at 221 West Hanover Street, Trenton, N.J.
    * Directions to Kuser Mansion and the John S. Watson Institute for Public Policy, located at 315 West State Street, Trenton, N.J."

    Thank You, Greg Johnson (just completed requirements for BSBA at TESC)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 7, 2018
  11. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    I must say that I agree with this, I have a doctorate and teach at CC level. Last year I was given a course to teach MS Office to social science students, I was quite embarrassed to tell my students that I have a doctorate, some students even thought that I was teaching the course because the bad economy as I couldn't find something better (Some students don't understand the system). The salary increase I got because of the doctorate was considerable and worth the extra academic work but sometimes I wonder if we really need a doctorate to teach some very basic courses like Word processing.
     
  12. Tom H.

    Tom H. New Member

    I can't believe that a CC offers a for-credit course in MS Office.
     
  13. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    It is an introductory course in computers for social science students that is essentially MS Office. I teach a similar course for Devry that is at the University Level. You really don't need a doctorate to teach these courses, but the reality is that many people that teach these courses have doctorates.
     
  14. Radek Gadek

    Radek Gadek New Member

    The article in question was written as "link bait." Link bait is an article that generates so much chatter it generates links (votes) which are then tallied by Google, Yahoo, and other search engines to generate higher placement in the search index.

    Some link bait articles are written by mistake (usually stupidity), while most are intentional. The more you talk about such an article on the World Wide Web, the more links it's bound to generate. Thus creating a stream of traffic to the site.

    Despite the fact that the information in the article is unsupported and preposterous at best, it still creates a buzz. I know that online degrees are highly desired as most employers cannot tell a difference since the degrees have the traditional (on-campus) version of the school's name on the diploma. Not that we, as online graduates, would like to misinform our future bosses, but the whole online degree stigma is being washed out as we speak. Articles like this one create more false stereotypes and further debilitate both traditional and online academic venues.

    Just my 2 cents.
     

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