Does anyone understand the government stimulus package?

Discussion in 'Political Discussions' started by dlady, Feb 20, 2009.

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  1. dlady

    dlady Active Member

    This is a pretty smart group (generally...). Does anyone here actually understand the stimulus package? As far as I can tell things are getting worse and the people who created the problem are getting my money and putting me more in debt..
     
  2. Randell1234

    Randell1234 Moderator


    My understanding - reward the people that were not responsible by helping them pay their mortgage combined with forcing the banks to reduce the loan values to a "fair market price" of the real estate. Maybe I'm wrong and I certainly hope I am! :rolleyes:
     
  3. dlady

    dlady Active Member

    I have to be honest, it pisses me off. I WAY under spent on my house and saved my ass off, now we're raising my taxes and giving it to people so they can stay in places they never could have afforded while I am taking it in the shorts as my 401k is disappearing and consulting opportunities drying up. PLUS we're dumping money into bad companies and bad banks that were built on bad business.
     
  4. BillDayson

    BillDayson New Member

    I doubt it. I certainly don't. Apparently it's a huge document that was plopped onto Congress' desks right before they were to vote on it, so many of those who authorized it probably haven't actually read it.

    I'm not an economist. In fact, I think that I might be the only Degreeinfo participant who isn't a business major. So I'm just a layman talkin'.

    But it looks like the return of Keynesian economics to me. When the economy shrinks, generate additional demand by government spending.

    Unfortunately, I get the impression that lots of the spending is hidden in the small-print details, consisting of payoffs to favored politically-connected interest groups.

    But at least it's symmetrical. If I'm not sure where the money is really going, I'm not sure where it's coming from either. Nobody ever talks about that. Presumably the US Treasury is going to be selling bonds to foreign investors, assuming that any of those exist and want to buy US dollar denominated assets. The mints might just fire up the printing-presses too. Maybe they figure that with so much paper wealth evaporating with the stock market declines, they can print that much money without raising the money supply. Or something, I don't know.

    So I worry about the country's indebtedness to the rest of the world and about the danger of future hyper-inflation.

    If the value of the US dollar ever collapses the way that the stock market has, then we are all in deep deep trouble.
     
  5. dlady

    dlady Active Member

    My understanding, through reading about it, is that it is funded by two sources: tax increases that will be written into law later, and (hold your breadth) they are printing more money.

    I read stuff like the government has already given 45Billion to Citigroup, which exceeds its market value, and they need 10Billion more, somehow. AND that their stock is pulling the market down, and it all might be moot as they may get nationalized rendering all the stock investors investments valueless.
     
  6. Ian Anderson

    Ian Anderson Active Member

    Education benefits

    At least some of us may benefit from the funds going into education and university research. There is also a $2500 tuition tax credit for individuals (I'm looking for more info on this). A summary here:
    http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2009/02/13/stimulus
     
  7. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator

    No

    http://twitpic.com/1k8wn
     
  8. Randell1234

    Randell1234 Moderator

  9. ewillmon

    ewillmon New Member

    That's certainly not news, is it? But I agree this "stimulus" or any other "plan" is not going to help, but actually will hurt. What's going to happen when we've restructured all these loans and the people default on them again? Bad government policy got us into this mess, and bad government policy is not going to get us out of this mess. I also believe that the politicans' fearmongering is not helping either.
     
  10. dlady

    dlady Active Member

    I agree. I was always kind of Neutral on Bill Clinton, but now I understand some things he did that I never picked up on, like he speaks in a subtle yet visionary way and gives a positive message. As much as we are all enamored with the current administration, and while they seem administratively capable, I am noticing so many negative messages, in a subtle way, that is making things MUCH worse, as peoples confidence in what is going to happen is like 51% of the battle, and that 51% seems to be being mis-managed aven though the administrative elements might be being managed okay, IMHO.
     
  11. dlady

    dlady Active Member

    from the article:

    ""I feel like I'm doing the right thing paying my mortgage, and now apparently I have to pay my neighbor's mortgage, too. People are really angry," said Kim Guymon, a stay-at-home mom ...."

    I RARELY have emotions about this stuff, but this is how I feel, and I am getting pretty pissed about it. I say F-em, let them fail, how much worse can it get, we are punishing the people that can manage a budget and live within their means, and rewording people who run up credit cards and buy houses that they can't afford. If we bail them all out, this behavior will continue...
     
  12. sentinel

    sentinel New Member

    In my opinion, the investment banks on Wall Street and around the world should have been allowed to fail. This would have hastened both the collapse of the economies and the subsequent recovery. I am not saying there would not be hardship between the collapse and the recovery, but the flushing of the economic toilet has been long overdue. As it stands, the people responsible for the crisis are being rewarded while millions of other people loose their livelihood on a daily basis.
     
  13. Gin Ichimaru

    Gin Ichimaru New Member

    Too bad they are not arresting and convicting the loan sharks who sold people these mortgages in the fist place. If I were up to me I would put those scamster mortgage brokers on a road gang and make them do some real work. Something they undoubtedly know nothing about.
     
  14. thomaskolter

    thomaskolter New Member

    I have a simple and elegant solution to the mortgage crises. Introduce a ,say for arguement, 60 year mortgage that could only be refinanced after say 15 years without the banks permission if before then. With a decent fixed interest rate the payments would be lower naturally and the bank still would make money. The numbers and terms could be different but it seems to me a fixed rate mortgage with payment under 30% of ones income is vital and this could meet those needs. And not really cost the government much if any money.

    I would then give most of the $350 billion left to community and regional banks with a mandate they offer such mortgages and to refinance any that are viable under that model, and give away the money granted in new loans.

    Seems to me these together could create a stable banking system for troubled assets, save peoples homes and we can then decide to let the banksthat should fail do so.
     
  15. me again

    me again Well-Known Member

    A coming global electronic system for commerce?

    1. The government prints more money and spends it to stimulate the economy. Some CEOs make out like bandits.

    2. United States currency isn't backed by gold or silver, but is only backed by the faith of the nations in it (the strength of the American economy and the global strength of the American military helps to stabilize the dollar i.e. it helps to stabilize the faith of the nations in the dollar). Once people and nations fully grasp that United States currency isn't fully backed by gold or silver, it will eventually escalate into a global meltdown of our entire planet's economic system because all other currencies are tied to the dollar.

    3. Outsource the American manufacturing base into other countries, thus leaving blue collar workers with an unstable economic future and less profitable employment opportunities in the present and in the future. This has been happening for over 30 years now.

    4. We have figured out that we can tax ourselves into prosperity [sic]. Refer back to #1 above.

    All sovereign currencies will eventually be abolished and replaced with a global electronic economic system for engaging in commerce.
     
  16. me again

    me again Well-Known Member

    The value of the dollar continues to decline, as is evidenced by inflation, and it will eventually reach hyperinflation. That could be around five years away, just to make an educated guess. As the dollar declines in value, it takes more of them to buy the same thing. The economy is now seeing larger numbers and figures than ever before. It's impossible for those numbers to significantly reverse.
     
  17. Ted Heiks

    Ted Heiks Moderator and Distinguished Senior Member

    A 60-year mortgage? Are you crazy? Or do you just think that people are going to want to work their butts off until they're 90 years old just to get the house paid off? And why the hell should a borrower need anybody's permission to refinance?
     
  18. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    At the beginning of a 30yr loan little of the payment goes towards principal. I dont imagine that a 60yr loan would really lower the monthly payment very much.
     
  19. BDev

    BDev New Member

    This is hope we can believe in: I pray they get this right.
     
  20. Randell1234

    Randell1234 Moderator


    I had the same idea but I was thinking a 40 year mortgage. I was talking to soemone who saw 39 year mortgages available.
     

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