I'm thinking about law school...

All of your feedback is very much appreciated. I think I need to revisit--The MBA. I do want the flexibility to teach on a college level.

Fall 2008

Study for the LSAT.
Take 2 online courses.
Take the LSAT.
See what happens.


Now, I just need to find an online MBA program. I've read in order to teach on a college level to select an RA school. Is there an additional accreditation for MBA programs to consider?

 

Public, yes. Private, no that's just Cooley.

Michigan, #9, 4.5/5 and 4.6/5
Median Public $55,706
Median Private $135,000

Santa Clara, #77, 2.6/5 and 3.2/5
Median Public $52,000
Median Private $110,000

 

They sure are! That would still be a huge paycut for me even as a middle/high school teacher! All that sacrifice for pennies? I dream of doubling my old teacher's salary after gaining 10 years experience in my new career.

A lady can dream can't she?

 

Sample test, official, and free!

http://www.lsac.org/LSAT/lsat-prep-materials.asp

 

#9 is UofM?
I never wanted to attend UofM or Michigan State. Those are college farms. Those classes are hugeeeeeeeee and the competition is fierce. The stories I've heard (shaking my head). I guess you have to sabotage your fellows in order to be NOTICED.

I went to Central Michigan University for my undergrad. I loved that campus because everything was centrally located. Plus, the classes weren't huge stadiums.

Heck, if I'm attending a B&M then I'd expect the professors to recognize my face and be able to recall my name!

I also don't appreciate paying top dollar to be taught by grad assistants. I hear that a lot. Sure, you see Dr. So-and So's name on the class when you register but after you get their sermonized lectures...the grad assistants handle the students. (I'm sure there are some excellent professors who actually TEACH...but I've heard many many horror stories.)

 

I doubled my salary two years after changing careers, so it's not out of the question. Of course, that includes taking on some freelance work, but it doesn't require any heavy lifting.

There are many, many online MBA programs out there. My suggestion is to look at schools in your state first, and see if any are AACSB accredited and offer online courses. You'll get more mileage out of your MBA if it's from a "local" school that everybody in your area knows.

 

Bless your heart Vincey!

I loove FREE!

I have a very very very old LSAT study book at my mother's.
I wanted to order "The PowerScore LSAT Logic Games Bible" from Amazon but it is sold out.

Oh! Hooray! "The PowerScore LSAT Logical Reasoning Bible: A Comprehensive System for Attacking the Logical Reasoning Section of the LSAT" is in stock.

I don't know if I need them both but they have high ratings from Amazon customers. I think the set is $129.00.


I was going to check my local library tomorrow.

 

If you want to teach at a college level, you should get an MBA with a concentration that has 18 graduate credits in the area of focus. Most, if not all, schools require you to have 18 graduate credits to teach a topic.

 

Where did you find this? I would be interested in UF and Stetson University stats.

 

I knew there would be another fancy smancy accreditation. I knew it! The schools in my state are expensive and there is a lot of academic snobbery when it comes to schools that are not one of the big three.

My sister is working on a MBA from Walsh. She commutes 30-45 minutes to get to class. She is trying to make up for getting a B.S in Sociology. As a licensed Social Worker she has made less than a teacher. I guess we both paid our debt to society but it's time for us to chase some $$$.

A local school with AACSB huh? Hmmmm.

 

I pay for access to the information in the US News database.

Florida, #46, 3.2/5 and 3.3/5
Median Public $39,000
Median Private $80,000

Stetson, #100, 2.1/5 and 2.4/5
Median Public $41,000
Median Private $75,000

 

So, I could teach at the college now even though I don't physically have my Master's? I abandoned my Industrial Management & Technology program right at the capstone level. I'd finish that one if they would let me...but they will not because they are too old. Actually, I don't even think they offer the program anymore.

Nevermind, that degree is worthless in Michigan. I doubt if there is a demand. In Mexico, India, or South Africa perhaps. Costa Rica would be nice but that husband of mine likes to bring up "what ifs" like HURRICANES.

Hence, the need to find another skillset.

 

No thats not a good representation, its actually lower. Schools manipulate their employment states in an effort to climb in the rankings of the vaulted US News report. Its quite common for only students who have high paying jobs lined up to report their income and employment status to career services. The rest of the students who either don't have a job or are working way below the reported median usually are not as eager to voluntarily lower their school's ranking. After all, the higher the school is according to US News the greater chance the student will have in the future of obtaining a better job. In addition, the employment stats after 9 months are completely unreliable. At that point in time your student loans (upwards of six figures at most law schools) kick in and you'll take a job flipping burgers and be thankful you're employed. Most law school graduates would have been better served (in a financial sense) having never gone to law school in the first place. To all those considering law school you have been forewarned!

 

Vincey, could you post the ranking for U of Toledo Law? I'm just curious.

 

Percentage of students in the private sector reporting salaries -

Michigan 78%
Santa Clara 78%
Florida 65%
Stetson 65%
Toledo 60%

Toledo, T3, 2.0/5 and 2.1/5 (T1 is 1-50, T2 50-100, then T3, then T4)
Median Public $47,500
Median Private $60,000

 

Nickk, I'm starting to believe this is the sign of the times for professionals. Before I hopped on my "I want to be a lawyer" horse, I was thinking of pusuing Architecture. Architectural design/drafting is still my favorite subject to teach. However, the hoops and the hurdles to become an Architect were ridiculous. My students tried to motivate me to go ahead and bite the bullet. So, I promised at the end of the school year to research it.

((((Shaking my head))) I saw the average salary was below what I was making and I couldn't believe it! Architecture is a 5 year program and the path to become licensed is crazy :sad:

I actually started out in the Engineering program and then all of a sudden our classes moved into an auditorium...I looked around and I could see competition and saturation in my future. Heck, I wasn't attending the big three. I switched to Industrial Education. My mother was livid! But, I was able to work non-stop for 11 years. I predicted I'd last for 10 years but I made it for 11 years. My engineering friends thought I'd lost my mind. They tried to coax me to come to GM Design with them. I decided to stay in my classroom. Ironically, they worked for GM Design for 2 years and after that were working on 6month or 1 year contracts or Manpower professional.

I nearly fell over when 2-3 years ago we had strange looking (suit and tie wearing) substitutes. They were all displaced engineers. One lady was furious because in her mind she had hit rock bottom. She was a lowly substitute teacher. I was better off than her because she had a $300,000+ house. Her husband worked for the same firm. After speaking wih her, I was grateful to have my dinky salary, benefits and classroom.

The economy firghtens me.

 

To be fair the starting salaries of lawyers don't give the full picture of the legal career path. While your starting salary as an associate is important because you've given up three years of your life and racked up an enormous amount of debt, its not the only number you should be concerned with. For one, most attorneys receive healthy bonuses based on performance and billiable hour quotas. If I were to gather a guess I'd say you could see a 10 to 30 percent bonus if you put the required effort in. Next, eventually the goal in private practice is to reach the partnership level at a firm. Even small firms (15-30 lawyers) can obtain partner salaries of 250k + bonus. The large NY, LA, DC firms regularly hit seven figures. Of course that is all a bit forward thinking when you are still in the lsat stage of the process. The average time to make partner is probably around 7-10 years and there are no guarantees that you will make it. In fact, most attorneys will not. Thats because private law firms are designed like ponzi schemes but I'll save that rant for another time....lol

 

I'm frustrated. But, not defeated.

Today, I purchased the Kaplan 2009 LSAT study guide with the CD/ROM.

I have been searching for MBA programs until my eyes crossed. There are so many schools to choose from and it seems most schools that will accept 9+ graduate hours won't apply mine to the MBA program. So, I guess I'll just chuck those credits up as a loss. I earned my Master's in MY MIND and I have 2 scholarly papers to prove it. That degree is practically useless in this country anyway.

So, I called one local school I've been avoiding because they are expensive--Madonna University.

But, I have a soft spot for this school. They helped me profoundly, when I was stressed about my provisional teaching license expiring. They took the reigns and before I knew it I had an upgraded professional license. I will always be grateful.

Anyway, I called Madonna and they pulled my account right up. They believe they still have my official transcripts in the Education department. PERFECT! Lori in admissions said, "Pay 25 dollars, have 2 letters of recommendations, write a statement of purpose, add us to your FAFSA and you can take 6 credit hours this fall while we await prgram acceptance."

Folks, I didn't even look at the program requirements. I just knew it was 40 credits and our state "says" they'll contribute $5-10000 through the No Worker Left Behind Program. I enrolled in that program and I'm waiting for approval (they really don't want to give me my tax dollars back.) This should offset the cost of the $18,000+ program for me.

Actually, Madonna has a MSroject Management program that's only 30 hours and I would only need 2 foundation courses. I like that program better because it shorter and cheaper. But, it is not on the approved NWLB list. Plus, I'm not sure if I can get into that one because I haven't work in "business". They require 2 years professional work experience and they require a resume'. It didn't say professional "business" experience so......

Now, I worked as a professional in education for 11 years. I even taught and managed 35 wired teens, 6 bay auto technology lab and a used car lot. However, I have no "formal" business experience. So, I guess I couldn't get in MSM program anyway. I will address both programs in my letter...just in case

In the meantime, I won't worry any further because I need to PASS foundation courses anyway. I have to face my fears-Accounting & Quantitative anything . So, I guess I will take the foundation courses that I will need. They have online and B&M classes and the school is a very short commute. I think I will start off with the B&M because I will need contact for accounting. I will also study for the LSAT my 3rd class.

Now, if my school calls me back...that would put a monkey wrench in my plan. The job is too demanding for me to go full-time. I can work part-time and balance the workload.

I plan to submit my application materials tomorrow. Hopefully, I can have practically everything order this week and relax. I need to focus on this LSAT.

Thank you all so much for your help. I'll keep you posted.

 

My advice to you is go to Madonna as a full-time student and if your former employer calls back, tell them not this time. The fact is that you have no job security using that job for a so-so salary. Every organization can use project managers, and they make a good salary themselves.

I would take the MBA program and maybe do a dual major MBA/MS Project Management OR start with the MBA with the plan that you will eventually change to the Project Management program. Look at the common course in the two programs, and take those first. In addition, since you are taking a graduate program, you have a higher student loan limit. I got my student loan quarterly statement last week, and it stated that Stafford loans are at 3.610% while in school, during the grace period or deferred for another reason like economic hardship.

So look at it as a short-term investment: you go full-time instead of part-time and get it done. Then whatever route you choose MBA, MS, etc. you have a low interest loan that may even be less due to the program that you mentioned and look at other state grants, they are there. Look at the schools total cost of attendance which is an estimated budget for going to school full-time. That should allow you to borrow extra funds in addition to tuition and fees to cover books, housing, transportation, etc. This should help with most, if not all, of the income that you earned at you job. Remember, this is a grant or a loan, so you do need to worry about taxes being taken out.

Good luck

 

As a recovering litigation paralegal, I'm wondering if you ever thought about going into litigation support (lit support). With your tech background and (soon to be earned) project management cert you could do very well for yourself.

Lit support folks are the ones who handle all electronic discovery, database management, Trial Director presentation (TD is a specialized software program that allows lawyers to "blow up" exhibits on screen during trial - consultants who handle this stuff make boku bucks), and just about anything that touches a computer. Another option, if you like criminal work, is to look into Smart Draw which is used by paralegals to draw crime scenes, recreate accidents, and the like. Since I handled mostly large multi state litigations and white collar criminal defense I only know of the software and job duties by reputation. The easiest "in" is to work for a vendor or third party software provider. Vendors are stupid and don't pay a great deal but it doesn't matter 'cause you're just using them for 6 months or so until you build up enough experience to meet the law firm's "hey, in this economy we're not training anyone" threshold. At least this is the way the NYC market works - your local economy will have it's own unwritten rules.

Another venue to consider is patent law and being admitted the "patent bar" without a JD. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USPTO_registration_examination
People who have hard science and technology backgrounds who also understand the patent process are very very very very rare. As a result they make really nice moola

Along those lines, if you consider the paralegal route I'd look into IP/patent or corporate work. After 5-10 years of work in a firm (sometimes less), you can often land a gig at a corporation or "in house." (And yes, that makes the law firm "out house" counsel. Insert your own joke here about career and social life going down the tubes or being flushed away).

IP/patent paralegals with tech backgrounds also command good money and are in high demand. A law firm can hire a newbie out of law school, train them to put together a patent application, but more likely than not the jr. associate will have no clue what the various tech specs mean. In addition to administrative type stuff - filing applications with the PTO, checking for infringement, sending out cease and desist orders -they also act as translators between the inventors/science folks and the lawyers.

Lastly, most law firms are divided over the value of *any* paralegal certificate. One school of thought believes that it takes the burden off the firm from having to train you and shows your commitment to the profession (Most paras have an eye on going to law school and the shelf life of the average litigation paralegal is about a year and a half before they leave the firm for school or greener pastures). The other school believes that they're going to have to teach you the firm's way of handling clients, legal matters, and the like so they'd rather start with a blank slate instead of having to "untrain" a para grad.

Honestly, the best way to get a feel for the legal profession - either in lit support or a paralegal - is to register with a bunch of temp agencies that specialize in paralegal placement. Hot fields right now include corporate bankruptcy and litigation while most M&A work has gone by the wayside (bad economy = lots of law suits to undo previous deals/M&A formed in economic upswing; corporate bankruptcy is kind of obvious). Also big right now is all the SOX compliance stuff and law firms and companies are trying to find ways to make sure all the i's are dotted and t's are crossed while containing costs.

Most law firms are looking for intelligent, professional people, with great organizational and communication skills. A firm's clients live and die by the firm's ability to keep all the hundreds of moving parts in a legal matter organized and the words they craft on the client's behalf. (They're called pleadings for a reason).

Good luck.