Degree from UMUC: is it appropriate not to mention that it's from UC?

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by notfound123, Jun 5, 2008.

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  1. BillDayson

    BillDayson New Member

    It's not bigotry and snobbery when graduates of other schools object to being shoved to the back of the hiring line by individuals who want to claim preferences, posing as graduates of elite and highly selective programs when the reality is something else.

    I mean no disrespect to Harvard Extension. It's a great thing. It awards fine degrees. It's certainly nothing to be ashamed of.

    But it's doing Harvard Extension no service to suggest that its greatest value might be as an easy-entry back-door to the Harvard name and to its accompanying public prestige.

    I realize that's a game that a few Harvard Extension students do like to play. But there's no reason why others need to play it too, particularly when it's not in their own best interest.
     
  2. Arch23

    Arch23 New Member

    It's obviously bad when there's malice in one's intent in declaring that s/he is from Harvard. But, unless we can all read their minds, and based on how I undertand HES' relation to the university, an HES student IS a Harvard University student. And that's a fact, plain and simple. If people want to interpret it in a malicious way when that HES student s/he is talking to is simply stating that fact, THEY are the ones who have some real issues going on.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 18, 2008
  3. JazzyMac

    JazzyMac New Member

    Wow, I'm glad I found this thread. Being military, UMUC has always been referred to by myself and my cohorts as "Maryland" or "University of Maryland" and only UMUC in it's long form during formal situations.

    Out of all the schools around, I still give respect to UMUC if only due to the way they've managed to keep their nose stuck in the air. Not in a bad way, but...
     
  4. DBA_Curious

    DBA_Curious New Member

    This conversation has always fascinated me.

    If a person didn't disclose the UC portion of the UMUC, is that really different from not disclosing 'Distance Learning Program' when their degree was earned via that medium.

    All things considered, I think they're about the same.
     
  5. TEKMAN

    TEKMAN Semper Fi!

    This remimds me couple days ago. There was a guy told me that he received a Bachelor degree from University of Maryland at Adelphi, MD. I asked him, so he graduated from University of Maryland University College. He replied NO, he graduated from University of Maryland - College Parks. Next time I graduate from Southern California University (www.calsouthern.edu/) (...put in my resume as University of Southern Californa (www.usc.edu)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 15, 2008
  6. GeneralSnus

    GeneralSnus Member

    It would only be "about the same" if a state's university system has various institutions otherwise unrelated with their own independent administrations and institution names such as XXX State University-City (colloquially known as XXX State University), Eastern XXX State University, Governor XXX State University, and an entirely separate institution (with separately and in some cases, differently accredited programs) called XXX State University-Distance Learning Program.
     
  7. DBA_Curious

    DBA_Curious New Member

    I think you're splitting hairs and I'll tell you why. As a CPA, I've been taught that things that would be of concern to others should be disclosed. How many people think that employers wouldn't want to know if a program was completed via distance learning vs. on campus?

    And most schools are going in the direction you've mentioned. Penn State's MBA is from the 'World Campus'. Indiana University has a separate office for their graduate programs. It goes on and on...

    Truthfully, if you're not disclosing something as significant as the medium by which you've earned your degree, glass houses and stones...

    Let me also add that I'm a fan of distance learning but it just seems disingenuous to take the moral high road with someone who has less than a clear campus on his or her resume if it's 'ok' to omit the very important distinction of whether a degree was earned on or off campus.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 15, 2008
  8. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    No way. The method isn't the same as the institution. Earning a degree from a school via DL isn't somehow less effective, less valuable. It is a different path to the same result--a degree from the school.

    But omitting information that deceives people into thinking you earned your degree from one school when, in fact, you earned it from another? That's simply a lie.

    If you've earned a degree from UMUC, letting people think you've earned it from U. of Maryland is the same as earning a degree from UC Irvine, but letting people think you've earned it from UC Berkeley. (Which is the premier "University of California.")

    Hell, you might as well tell them you graduated from Dartmouth. It's the same lie.
     
  9. GeneralSnus

    GeneralSnus Member

    Perhaps you're not clear. UMUC is not a different campus of UM,CP; it is an entirely separate institution with no relationship aside from the fact that they're both state schools and thus part of the University System of Maryland. The "University College" part of the name does not denote a campus, it's actually part of the institution's name.
     
  10. DBA_Curious

    DBA_Curious New Member

    You misunderstand me. I don't advocate either but I think they're close to being the same.

    The Penn State MBA earned on-ground is considerably different than their iMBA. Yet both could write Penn State - MBA

    I think both should be disclosed to be fair.
     
  11. DBA_Curious

    DBA_Curious New Member

    I'm not unclear at all but I think leaving off significant information is inappropriate in both cases.

    And I think UMUC allows the situation to be clouded when it posts resumes of its own graduates that read 'University of Maryland' only, which they have.
     
  12. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    I did misunderstand you. I disagreed with you. Still do, but that's fine.
     
  13. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    They really should just have just named it "Maryland State University" in the first place to avoid this sort of thing.

    -=Steve=-
     
  14. cklapka

    cklapka Member

    Are there really examples of this? I would like to see them and see how that gels with the guidelines set out by the University System of Maryland.
     
  15. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    "UMUC" is even more deceiving that you're typical graduated-from-one-of-the-schools-in-the-system-but-not-the-main-one kind of thing. If you say you graduated from UC Irvine, I know you didn't go to UC. But if you say you graduated from something called "University College," I'm apt to think it's a college of the actual university, not another campus in the state system. "University College" is often used by universities to describe a core college. So "UMUC" sounds like you DID attend UM, graduating from it's "UC," instead of, say, the Smith School (Business).

    Get a real name, "UMUC."
     
  16. Bruce

    Bruce Moderator

    Agreed.....Boston University's DL and continuing ed programs are through its Metropolitan College, which is just as much a part of BU as their College of Arts & Science.

    As I mentioned awhile back, I propose "Maryland State University"; you still have rock-solid name recognition, while making a clear distinction from the University of Maryland.
     
  17. Lawrie Miller

    Lawrie Miller New Member

    Indeed, and your observation may provide a solution to the problem of UMUC and UMCP. This is a little indirect, but bear with me. . .

    Regents College did not change its name from USNY. Regents College was never named USNY, rather it was a constituent college of USNY. Regents college had no power to confer degrees before it became an independent entity in (if memory serves) April 1998, and the last degrees conferred by the University of the State of New York are dated 04/24/1998. After that date, degrees were conferred by the now independent Regents College - later renamed "Excelsior" (presumably after the infamous South African fortified wine of that name).

    Thus, those who earned their degree from Regents College of USNY, are graduates of the University of the State of New York (as the degree diploma so states), not Regents College. Those who earned their degree after Regents College became independent (and thus gained the power to confer degrees), are graduates of Excelsior College nee "Regents".

    Now, if it is the case that degrees of graduates of UMUC are conferred by UMUC, then they must state they are graduates of UMUC. However, if degrees are conferred by the regents of the University of Maryland, then they are graduates of UM.

    Equally, if the degree diploma of UMCP states that the degree is conferred by UMCP, then they are graduates of UMCP, they are NOT graduates of UM. It does not matter what they may claim in the name of what is “customary and usual”.

    What precisely does the degree diploma state? THAT is the final arbiter, no “ifs”, “ands” or “buts”.

    Looking at my wife’s diploma from University of California, Santa Barbara (UCSB), it states the degree is conferred by the regents of the University of California, not the “regents of UCSB”. Thus it would be quite proper to style herself a graduate of UC.

    My undergraduate degrees earned at Regents College were conferred by two different entities, one by USNY and one by Regents College (now Excelsior College). To declare anything else would be a falsehood. For what its worth, when it matters (CV, resume, application forms, et al), I declare these as follows:

    Excelsior College, Albany, NY
    (formerly Regents College of USNY)
    Bachelor of Science General Business (by examination)

    University of the State of New York, Regents College, Albany, NY
    Bachelor of Science Political Science concentration (by examination)


    Well, as I understand it, the complaint is that UMUC grads are falsely stating the are graduates of UM. USNY grads are accurately stating the are graduates of USNY, and it is not incumbent upon them to add a caution that USNY is not SUNY (though I always do so verbally when its clear someone, face to face, has misread it or misheard it).

    It is certainly true that nine times out of ten institutions misread it as SUNY, as is: “we received your SUNY, transcript from Excelsior”. OR “Lawrie is a graduate of SUNY, Albany”

    That sort of thing could get a guy in trouble.

    This goes on at Excelsior too. Look at the way they style themselves in their literature and on their students transcripts:

    “EXCELSIOR COLLEGE
    Member of the University of the State of New York”

    Now that is absolutely accurate but it is real close to saying and is likely to be interpreted as:

    “Excelsior College of the University of the State of New York”


    THE DEVIL’S ADVOCATE or “Judge ye not lest ye be judged”
    Finally, I suspect more important to some employers may be whether you earned your degree online or traditionally. How many of you, unsolicited, state overtly on your resume or application, or bio, or at cocktail parties, that you earned your degree online, or by correspondence? How many who earned their undergraduate degree years ago from Regents USNY, disclose that you were awarded 30 semester hours for each pass above the 30th percentile on a multiple choice exam (the threshold for 30 credits is now 80th percentile) ? Many earned half their degree that way. Isn’t that a factor employers might want to consider?

    Would they not be interested that you earned your doctorate with residency that consisted of a few 4 to six day seminars over the course of years? If they knew, might not a sizable number to whom it matters, consider it a correspondence degree?

    We may think it doesn’t matter, some may declare loudly that it makes no difference how the degree is earned, but it’s not about what we think, its about full disclosure so that prospective employers can make an informed decision as their reason gives them the light to do so.

    We cannot, in good conscience, hold others (UMUC grads) to a higher standard than we hold ourselves.

    Let he among us who is without sin . . .
     
  18. Ted Heiks

    Ted Heiks Moderator and Distinguished Senior Member

    Wasn't there a time when it was styled the Regents Degree Program of the University of the State of New York?
     
  19. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Specifically, "Regents External Degree Program," then "Regents College Degree Program." As Lawrie points out, however, these programs were not degree-granting in and of themselves. The degrees were awarded by the Regents, whose formal title is "University of the State of New York."

    Readers: "Excelsior" is the state motto of New York.

    I don't agree with Lawrie's statement that it depends on whether or not the Maryland Board of Regents awards the degree. The comparison to New York is not informing on the subject. In Maryland, the constituent universities in the state system are degree-awarding institutions. As such, omitting information that would lead someone to think one graduated from UM (College Park) when, in fact, one graduated from another college in the system, would be misleading, regardless of the involvement by the board of regents.

    In Regent's/USNY's case, there was no other degree-granting authority than the USNY.
     
  20. GeneralSnus

    GeneralSnus Member

    And to answer that quesiton, it appears the UMUC diploma states "University of Maryland University College" (with reference to the Board of Regents of the University System of Maryland), while University of Maryland, College Park diplomas state "UNIVERSITY OF MARYLAND" (also with reference to the Board of Regents of the University System of Maryland).
     

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