Value of US degrees and the Open University UK

So what? The OU does not deliver courses to North America and who in North America is going to move to England (or other parts of Britain) to "attend" the OU? Other than the love of medieval argument, what is the point of this thread for DL students?

 

Re: Re: Value of US degrees and the Open University UK

The point is that a person who holds or intends to achieve a university degree from one jurisdiction for use in another, needs to be aware of that degree's utility in the foreign jurisdiction. Considering the global reach of DL, more people are going to be seeking degrees from outside the country in which they are to be used. Witness the number of posters on this Board from the USA (and other countries) who are undertaking or seriously looking at Australian DL degrees.

In very simple terms, most English speaking countries use the same nomenclature: bachelor, master and doctor (of various ilks). But that does not mean that each is interchangeable between countries. Naturally, each country will have its own descriptors for each degree and its own assessment, accreditation and quality control regimes.

So one should not expect that, for example, a Bachelor of Science would necessarily be interchangeable in terms of content and rigour from one country to the next.

So, it is a legitimate discussion for this group to debate the issue and inform each on various processes. Not all readers of this Board are Americans wishing to apply their degrees at home.

But, as far as I am aware, the majority of visitors and posters to this board are US residents, so it is that many of the posts on this subject that do occur are about the utility of a US degree outside the US. That is not a problem to me.

Much of the discussion on this Board centres on the merits or otherwise of American schools, and/or people seeking advice on US schools. Again, I don't have a problem with this except I would like to see discussion on a much wider range of DL issues. Here is a list for starters:

- Comparisons between degrees from various countries and their utility (starting to be covered in this thread and others).
- Methods of DL delivery and resulting research.
- The effectiveness of DL as a mode of education compared to other methods, what barriers there might be and how these may be removed or reduced.

Here is one site that deals with DL in a more scholarly manner, but even this does not get updated all that often:
http://www.irrodl.org/

Most of the postings to this Board are consumer driven, ie. from the student or student's perspective. There seems to be few contributions from those that actually DELIVER DL: teachers, academics, administrators.

That is a pity.

Kind regards

 

Peter, Amen!

I couldn't agree more.

The majority of the topics, with some exceptions of late, focus on how to get the quickest and easiest degrees in the United States.

Intelligent information and discourse regarding academic standards in an international context, distance learning and utility of degrees in an international context is very rare.

 

I think perhaps you should understand that when OU was originally started the basic premise was that it was for people who had, for whatever reason, no real access to a university degree. On that basis it made sense that they would not allow transfer of credits into the program, since if you had the credits (or points or whatever) by definition, you MUST have had access to some form of University education. In fact, when it first started, my recollection that it the number of places were somewhat limited, so it was not necessary to provide any accomodations with regard to previous degree level work. Of course, times change, and I realise that what I have said may not apply any more, however, I suspect the previous political climate in the institution must colour their willingness to provide accommodations in the present.

Jennifer

P.S. My mother got an Honours degree from the OU at the age of 78!

 

Re: Re: Open University

...but somehow, it's okay for your "government" to impose its will on others?
You would be better advised to work to build an electoral system for President in which people's votes actually mattered, rather than to rely on an "electoral college" (unaccredited) in which one brother can "help" another get a better job, before you start pontificating about how other people should feel about their own countries.

Darren.

 

Re: Re: Re: Open University

Darren,

Canada is a wonderful country. I have spent a little bit of time in Vancouver, Ottawa and Nova Scotia. However, I do not understand your need to bash the United States. Is it Envy?

The United States is a nation of laws. The Electoral College was established in our constitution. By the way, there is an election for our head of state. This is not the case in your country, is it?

Regarding the United States imposing its will on others. How about some gratitude? Let me offer a simple understatement: The United States has played a major role in guaranteeing the exercise of free will all over the world.


You're welcome,

 

Re: Re: Re: Open University

Just a little reminder Darren: If it wasn't for the United States "imposing its will on others", your whining would be written in German or Japanese. Think about that long & hard before you respond with something asinine.

You're welcome.


Bruce

 

Re: Re: Re: Open University

You know, I am just sick of hearing this crap. All one needs to do is read through some articles in any major newspaper or magazine, say for example The Economist. Whenever there is any major crisis the first thing that leaders from all over the world ask is where are the Americans? Why aren't they fixing this?

Believe it or don't: THE U.S. IS A RELUCTANT SUPERPOWER. Anyone who has studied the history of the United States for five minutes will know that Americans have always been reluctant to be involved in world affairs. We would just as soon stay in our own country and ignore the rest of the world. But the U.S. is constantly dragged into world affairs because of its economic and military might. There simply is no one even close to us, and not likely to be for the forseable future.

As for your second point: this is something much of the rest of the world, and in fact many Americans don't even understand. The 2000 election went flawlessly.... What's that?... The Constitution of the United States worked so well that not a single shot was fired nor a stone was thrown in the transition of power from one political party to the other. In a regular election year that in itself would be a miracle in most countries (happens in the U.S. all the time). But in a year when there were doubts about the outcome of an election the peaceful transition was even more significant. I hear ZERO question of the legitimacy of the 2000 election, and even people who were mad as hell about the election are complimenting GWB like crazy.

While we're poking holes in one another's governments you may want to order up some lessons in manners for your own parliment. It sure is entertaining to watch, but the way they insult and belittle one another in the house of parliament makes the questioning of Tony Blair look like a tea party. Such a lack of decorum and common courtesy would NEVER happen in Washington D.C. (Amazing, but true.)

Jeff Welch

 

Re: Re: Re: Value of US degrees and the Open University UK

My apologies

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Open University

Jeff: Well said.


Bruce

 

Hi Ken

(A big sigh.) You only have to look at the posts that followed yours to see that "intelligent information and discourse" is sometimes hard to get on this Board (Jennifer's posts aside). We can plug on, though!

(And thank you for your insightful comments in another thread. They are pertinent here of course!)

Kind regards

 

I have to say that I am so frustrated with this issue. I am currently living in the UK with my husband and have been trying for over a year to enter a teacher credential programme and keep getting told that my US Bachelors degree is not equivalent to a UK Honours degree, which the majority of the programmes require (along with a 2:1, and don't even get me started on how you are supposed to translate that into US terms).

My local education department persuaded me into checking out Open University to "top up my degree" to a UK Honours degree and I was given the impression by many people that I would just have to complete a year of study and cough up £5,000 and I would have earned my UK BA Honours degree. Then I would be stuck at 0 again and begin applying for teaching credential programmes. I didn't want to do it that way, but it seemed like the only option.

I just found out today that Open University will only awarded me 150 credits towards a UK BA Honours degree. They want me to complete 210 credits with them to earn a degree. That will take a lot longer than one year and £5,000!

I am so completely fed up with being told that my degree is inferior and I am even considering moving with my husband back to the states so I can get my credential there, even though we are happy here and were trying to earn my British citizenship.

How can someone with a four year, full-time degree and over 6 years working in education abroad and in the UK not be fit to get onto a teaching programme? This whole degree equivalency seems political to me.

 

My two cents :

1. I have hired employees with bachelor and master degrees, from UK and USA. I am in international business and come across people from many school systems.(a) In most countries seems high school education far above that of the United States. (b) edcuation at the bachelor level in the UK does seem to be ahead of US equivalent. (c) at Master's level from good US schools America seems to catch up and in some technical discplines seems ahead of most other countries. The general education I find abysmal in most high schools these days, and I think over time this will effect America's accumulated lead. The decline seems to be steady and continuing.

2. I am baffled by the idea one encounters that America has the highest quality of living.

3. I find it equally curious in the 21st century that many in America consider it the most free country, this could be debated.

4. As far as "succeeding in life" that is a pretty broad issue. If one could measure happiness I am not sure one could say Amreican's are more happy than many other nations,as compared the same comparison 50 years ago.

It is fine to be patriotic,but in my opinion important to be realistic.

I went to an American high school and graduated, but at same time took British "A" levels. The British A levels were at a far higher level than any senior high school class I took.

 

As an Australian, I have done Australian Masters degrees. I have two of them. I am halfway through a US Masters (NA). I don't see much difference except that US degree is a little more of applied science than here. I have done undergraduate studies with an Australian University, a US university and the University of London. The UOL was the most challenging because of the high level of expectation placed upon the examination, and also the fact that each subject was effectively a "double subject". In the US and Australia, a single UOL subject would have been broken down into two subjects.

I should also mention that the undergraduate studies were in different subject areas and my comments may reflect more my particular abilities than the differences in standards. I think that the difference between four year degrees in the US and three year degrees in Australia and the UK is because the level of the last year of high school here. I think it would compare to the first year of a US college degree. At the end of the bachelor's degree in the UK, Australia, and the US it may level out.

The other thing to consider is that generally the bachelor's degree is a professional qualification here and in the UK; where in the US it is the postgraduate qualification. In short, when comparing the US undergraduate and a UK/Aust undergraduate, you are comparing apples and oranges. One is more of general education preparatory degree while the other is a professional qualification.

I do not doubt that the US still is the land of opportunity. The evidence is in the immigration intake. Even the wealthy Chinese are buying US property so they can jump to the US if they have to. This evidence is hard to argue against. Other developed societies are gaining quickly and may overtake, but the US is still in front at the moment. It all depends upon the US GFC economic recovery.

 

I agree that UK bachelor degrees provide a greater amount of education than US bachelor degrees, at least in certain majors. But I think a major difference is that UK degrees are sometimes (if not mostly) 100% related to the major (engineering, medicine, and psychology for example). An applicant has to demonstrate their general education by way of A levels; I know of UK and SA students who received academic credit for their A levels in US colleges. My daughter had to earn specific A levels before being admitted to York for a BSc in psychology. My nephew has a UK BM and was practicing medicine when he was 21.

In the UK attaining membership in a professional organization (IMechE or FRCR) is more important than earning a masters degree.

 

I am absolutely astonished by the ridiculous, and pretentious attitude evidently coming from the OU, and the comments on this thread regarding US degrees vs. UK degrees.

It may behoove you all to know that I just married an Englishman, who is finishing up his bachelor degree with honors/honours from the Open University online. Generally, most of the USA states consider online degrees a joke, and it is only most recently they are being pushed to reconsider their opinion. I earned my B.A. in an accredited university, and I went a 5th year beyond to earn my state teaching credential, both from the USA. Although I would never tell my spouse what is really on my mind, as it would crush his feelings, but when I look through his books, vids, tutorials, and general coursework - all I've been thinking this entire 5 years (he doubled up 1 year), is how much much easier his educational experience is than mine!

In fact, I have seriously worried how his coursework will transfer, or even be recognized by an accredited university over here in the USA. My coursework was so much more varied, and complicated! My head was buried in books and study daily, as I had to sit every week for some kind of exam or quiz. It was sheer torture! He just gets to write papers!! Even for the exam part, he gets to sit comfortably in his home, looking at his notes, and over his readings, and types away a PAPER?! Granted they are well researched papers, however, I was required to do the same caliber of papers in each class, PLUS take regular exams, including a final exam that covered everything from the beginning to the end of the course which was typically 50% of my final grade/mark. Going full-time meant I had 4 classes. So multiply everything I just wrote x 4. He gets to write papers, and ONE final exam paper.

In addition, he is being fed the most ludicrous liberal prattle of utter nonsense I have ever encountered at any higher educational institution! Many of the authors Open University has looked up to for this "enlightened" curriculum, is university professors from undistinguished USA universities. Those that hold extremely liberal radical views, and are barely taken seriously by the critical thinking scholars in the USA. Yet, it is being taught as near gospel truth to the people in the Open University UK 2012/2013, and from what I can tell from his OU forums, they are gobbling up the radical filth hook, line, and sinker. I truly fear for the future of the UK's educational system, politics at voting time, and the sick indoctrination of the next generation, as many of these gullible UK OU adults are speaking about teaching in a classroom. (I am having trouble breathing at this conjecture).

Honestly, the Open University's reduced point guidelines for transferal of a USA bachelor's degree sounds more concerned with unfounded ego, than reality based research on the quality of the USA degree. My spouse wishes to teach here in the states, and I just hope that his OU degree "with honours" is accepted by the state credential program. We will both be teachers, and I can honestly say, that I feel I was far better educated, and prepared for this vocation/career than he was.

It suspect that both US universities, and the UK Open University have a bit of a "chip on the shoulder" about what standards of education they deem as being worthy overall. One would have to go through both degree programs to truly assess the quality of educational information that earns the title of BA/BS. Perhaps when my spouse is done taking his prerequisite classes for admission into the credential program, along with the required post-graduate classes of the credential program - he would be the better qualified spokesperson to speak about USA versus UK university curriculum quality control. Certainly better than the person who started this thread, and those that merrily chirped in cheeky comments early on! In other words, get off your high horse until you walk a mile in the other shoes, and just because the OU has set guidelines for transferal, doesn't mean they are accurate or fair. After all, who died and made the OU snobbish academic king?

Sincerely,
Proud holder of a USA bachelor's degree.

 

A bit cranky this morning:dot: Relax, chill, sip a piña colada, and welcome to this interesting forum.:naughty:

 

US Universities: My degrees are better than yours.


UK Open University: If you say so, congratulations.