Teaching with an NA Degree

I don't think that the words 'regional' and 'national' are very important. The only reason that the regional accreditors are regional is to make things more manageable, especially site visits I guess. (The essentially nationwide AZ-to-WV NCA/HLC excepted.) A smaller organization may also give leading local institutions more influence, UC with WASC for example.

What's more important are the kind of schools that are accredited. The regional accreditors essentially have all of the state universities, all of the doctoral-research universities and all of the universities that anyone has ever heard of (discussion boards excluded). DETC and ACICS are mostly small and very obscure proprietary schools. As far as the man and woman on the street knows, RA is accreditation.

I don't see any alternatives to RA becoming widely recognized until they become widely recognized.

 

Perhaps you are correct.

 

Good. Now that we have that straight ...

Perhaps it would be good for the DETC to become a programmatic accreditor of distance learning programs at bricks & mortar schools (while also remaining an institutional accreditor of 100% online schools). But the problem is going to be trying to convince the RA schools that DETC is worth having. (Yeah, I know about BYU and NYIT.)

Again, that depends on whether the RA schools want even DETC in the first place.

The DETC's purpose has been to serve as an alternative to the RAs. I seriously doubt that any of the RAs would have accredited a 100% online school had the NAs not done so first. The Southern Association is so reactionary, conservative, and decaying that they still have not accredited any 100% online schools and, as a consequence, DL schools flee the SA (or avoid the SA like the plague in the first place).

You simply assert that the DETC can never become the "7th (virtual) regional." Where's your evidence?

 

Here in South Carolina, anyone who enters the teaching profession in the public school system must have an RA degree.

Not too long ago I was toying with the idea of going through the "alternative teachers route" they have as a program here in this state. It is designed to fill the critical needs areas of education such as Math, Science, Business etc.

Essentially during the info session, they said if you " Blah, Blah, Blah, and your degree is RA, then you are eligible, if you do Blah, Blah Blah.
They did not ask where you graduated from, they just wanted to know if it was RA or not.

Even the private schools want RA too. Often their requirements is "state certification" which again means RA. To obtain the cert. you had to go the RA route.
Gavin

 

Yes, that is the challenge. And perhaps they can't do it. "Distance Learning" isn't a discipline like psychology or nursing; it's a delivery method. So there won't be professional pressure to incorporate programmatic accreditation. But if not that, what? Doesn't it seem obvious that the regionals are taking away the niche DETC so briefly occupied? (The accreditation of DL schools.) They always have, of course, but now more so than ever, it seems.

Perhaps. But if we exchange the term "online" for "nonresidential," then the regionals beat DETC to it by a long stretch.

It's an informed opinion, based upon almost 30 years of direct observation. No one can prove the future, but the past seems to indicate this. At least to me it does. YMMV.

 

Rich: You are then suggesting that because the RAs do not accept the DETC as equal in validity as an institutional accreditor, the DETC ought to stake its entire future on the RAs accepting them as a valid programmatic accreditor of already-RA DL programs. Hmm.

 

Perhaps we could construct a list which shows, for each of the RAs, the first 100% DL school each RA has accredited up to each degree level (and year accredited).

 

Yes, I am.

 

At this point, I don't see the six regional accrediting bodies accepting DETC equivalency either; as the modality differences traditionally present with DL instruction lessen, there is more and more overlap in the types of programs being accredited, so only institutional differences will remain. The differences in the institutions seem irreconcilable.

Dave

 

Interesting theory; I believe that DETC accreditation is a backwards step for a school that is already RA, and now that so many 100% DL/online programs exist at RA schools, the niche for DETC seems to be shrinking.

Rich, just to clarify, is your idea that DETC become a "department accreditor" for distance programs much like the APA accredits psychology departments and AACSB business departments?

 

Such a move makes no sense at all. Why place their faith in some pie-in-the-sky possibility that the RAs might accept the DETC as valid programmatic accreditation of distance learning programs when it is manifestly obvious that the RAs have not accepted the DETC as valid institutional accreditation of distance learning institutions?

 

In a sense. Because the RA's already accredit schools, including those offering DL, I'd like to see DETC become an accreditor of DL programs, focusing mainly on delivery, assessment, support, etc.

The idea isn't to establish that a school meets GAAP; that's already done by the RA. Rather, DETC accreditation can become a "Good Housekeeping Seal of Approval" kind of thing, where schools offering DETC-accredited DL programs offer an assurance to their students that they'll receive the best DL programs available.

As it currently stands, with the RA's accrediting DL universities, and RA universities offering DL programs left and right, what's to become of DETC in the academic world except to be a 2nd-rate recognition? What is DETC's niche anymore? Or will it be a retrograde back to the matchbook covers?

I don't speak for DETC--I don't even speak for the CLMS, who is accredited by them. But DETC has made specific moves in this area during the past several years. It expanded its scope of accredition. It began accrediting foreign universities offering DL. It accredited schools/programs within foreign universities (like the CLMS), and now it is accrediting schools/programs within U.S. schools (like BYU). I think what I'm describing is possible, but I'd certainly like to hear alternative possibilities for these actions.

Whatever DETC is up to, I think it's great.

 

Getting back to the original subject of this string.

Florida currently allows NA degrees for teacher certification.

Ted N
Ocala, FL

 

California allows NA degrees for teaching positions and certifications.

 

CHEA does recognize them as being substantially equal, even to the extent that they recommend that credits earned at RA and NA institutions be accepted in transfer from one to the other. It has been my experience that more and more RA schools are in fact accepting NA credits in transfer, it is at the state government level that you run into problems regarding teaching with a NA degree.

Pug

 

I have a hunch what you are saying is true, but yours is a definitive statement of observation. As someone who's conducted research in this area, I'd be curious how you have observed this. Also, to what degree has this occured?

 

You are correct in that my statement is one of personal observation. I don't have research data to substantiate the observation. The private institutions seem to be the schools most wiling to accept the NA credit...some outright, some under a "case by case basic" or on a "probationary" basis. When I first starting looking at DL schools about 8 years ago I came across only a handful that would accept NA credit. Now it seems as though NA credit is much more welcomed. Have you not had similar observations?

 

I can tell you that I have known and heard of a few cases that teachers in the k-12 realm with NA degrees been fired (or released) of their assignments for not having a vaild (RA) accredited degree. So in the state of Florida and Ohio, the standards are strict and the DOE's do a pretty decent job on background checks with degrees from various colleges and universities...the only issues are those from overseas. A former colleague (that I taught with @ k-12 level) received his masters from a prestigous university from Scotland, and it took the DOE 5-6 months to verify and approve his degree credentials for salary increase...strange.

 

Anthony, I am glad you brought up this fact... because this really has been bothering me, and in fact ticks me off a little bit.
I understand that many individuals do vaild, research and work to earn advanced degrees which many are NA. However, this notion that many colleges and universities are hiring individuals for various faculty positions with NA degrees really is disturbing. Simply, because it seems that many individuals who have worked hard to earn RA advanced degrees are experiencing difficulties in obtaining faculty positions at these institutions because it seems that these institutions are willing to hire (or hold onto) NA instructors over the RA because of what or how many degrees they hold.

I am sorry, but if I am an individual who is trying to get on with a cc, and hold multiple RA degrees, and they have faculty that obtain additional degrees that NA just for the pay increase - to me that is fraud, and puts me at a disadvantage, and the college should be penalized under their accreditation sector.

I don't know........this just may be me, but it does bother me!

 

I have conducted extensive research into the patterns and behaviors of systems. This includes field research, historical research, and academic research (my current dissertation, when finished, will publish some of this). A general conclusion I’ve reached is that overlapping systems tend to harmonize with each other over time. I think your observations about NA credit acceptance supports my general conclusions around system behaviors, as NA and RA are different but overlapping systems. With relationship to the DL field, specifically I think DETC and RA (I tend to use NA and DETC interchangeably, which is not correct, so I am starting to specifically mention DETC), are exhibiting early patterns of a harmonizing trend…

DEL