Does AACSB matter if you aren't going to teach?

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by scotty, Apr 17, 2007.

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  1. macattack

    macattack New Member

    Perfectly said. My thoughts exactly.
     
  2. jmetro

    jmetro New Member

    What???

    I took the darn CMBA exam. It was the hardest set of examinations I've ever taken. It was harder than the IQ tests I used to take back in middle and high school. It was harder than my ACT and SATs. It was harder than the GRE.

    In fact, the test is designed to fail people who don't know a heck of a lot about many many many aspects of business management.

    I don't know where you got your information from but it wasn't from personal experience.

    You should pay the $200 or $500 for the test, buy the cram books, and just try passing it. I have 18 years of managment experience and a MBA and I had to take the second exam four times to earn a passing score over a period of a year! They could have just set up a rule to keep me from taking the exam again and they tried it but I kept waiting my 90 day waiting period while I continued studying and eventually passed it.

    The examination is not a static examination. It is pulled from a bank of questions and is changed each time you fail a section. The test actually gets harder the more times you fail, throwing more nagging detail into each problem to determine the maximum level of knowledge you have on a given knowledge domain.

    NOTE: I AM NOT AFFILIATED WITH THE CERTIFIED MBA OR THE ASSOCIATION OF CERTIFIED MBAs IN ANY WAY EXCEPT THAT I HAVE TAKEN (AND PASSED) THE EXAM AND AM THEREFORE A MEMBER OF THE ASSOCIATION.
     
  3. jmetro

    jmetro New Member

    Disagreement here...

    Again, if you know so much about the exam, you should take it and see how well you do.

    I don't care where you get your knowledge from but if AMBAI can provide the knowledge to pass this examination, more power to them.

    Anyway, we all know that in the "real-world" results matter most of all.

    I'm not defending AMBAI if they are involved in any bad educational practices but, clearly to pass the exam as an AMBAI alumnus proves some level of competency in the field.

    I'm sure that if we forced all 2.4 million MBAs in the US to take the exam or lose their MBA credential we'd probably cut the number of MBAs by 70% or more.

    Don't talk about stuff that you've not had personal experience with unless you've got a darn good theory to back you up.

    Finally, Western Governors University is a regionally and nationally accredited university (DETC, NWCCU, and WASC). Their process is still being tweaked but is extremely good at proving a base level of competency in each knowledge domain. I know because I'm a WGU graduate. I've taught Economics and a number of other courses in a college setting and been in senior to executive management for almost 10 years now with another 10 years in general management. I consider myself extremely competent.

    Take the test. Even with the CMBA Exam Prep Guide (which I personally considered as a nearly worthless preparation guide when I was taking the CMBA) and a perfect recall you won't do as well as you think.

    Jacob
     
  4. jmetro

    jmetro New Member

    Disclaimer

    I should probably ensure that everyone is aware that I'm not a troll.

    I do NOT work for Western Governors University or the Association of Certified MBAs. I have no vested interest in either company except as an alumnus of both.

    Jacob Metro
     
  5. CalDog

    CalDog New Member

    I have been critical of the CMBA in posts above, but I agree that it is unfair to call it a "mill certification." Reasonable people may disagree on the exact definition of a "milled" credential, but in general they require little or no effort to get. The CMBA exam, on the other hand, is a 6-hour exam, requires a graduate degree as a prerequisite, and has a 46% flunk rate (based on the "beta" exam). Those criteria are not out of line for professional licensing exams.

    Perhaps the most effective counterargument is the fact that the CMBA is so unsuccessful in the market. If the CMBA was truly a "mill" certification, then surely they would be issuing far more certificates. It wouldn't surprise me if tens of thousands of fake MBA diplomas have been issued by degree mills since 2003. In contrast, the market is obviously not flooded with CMBA certificates, given that only ~ 250 have been issued over that time period. And remember, most of those were issued for free, during the beta testing.

    But even if we accept that the CMBA is for real, that doesn't mean that it has any significant market value. For example, would "Jacob Metro" have bothered to take the CMBA (repeatedly), if he had not been required to do so by WGU? Maybe not, since it's apparent that very few non-WGU students are interested.

    Finally, I would agree that the policy of allowing AMBAI students in does weaken the credibility of the CMBA. AMBAI is not only unaccredited, it appears to be granting degrees illegally.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 18, 2007
  6. jmetro

    jmetro New Member

    Good Point

    CalDog:

    You have a good point there. I wouldn't have taken the exam unless I was forced to by WGU. I believe the exam is plenty difficult and is a good measure of the knowledge domains necessary to function as an MBA.

    You're absolutely right, no matter how legitimate the program is, it only means something to those of us who took the exam and know full well how difficult it is.

    I'll tell you this as well...

    Having been in executive management for some time now and having seen MBAs and guru genius technophiles over my career, I can say without a question that if I see someone with the CMBA designation with a degree from a reasonable nationally accredited program, I will hire them over a Harvard MBA without the CMBA.

    Maybe this means that the certification process is too hard or maybe it means that it is worthless but I suspect that if we could force the process on every MBA minted, it would be worth something.

    Of course, you're also right that this will never happen so the exam is basically meaningless. Until employers start asking "Why haven't you earned your CMBA designation?" we'll never have the kind of moderating impact this exam deserves in sorting between the "good", "bad", and "average" programs.

    The only way to push employers to ask for this designation is for those of us who have earned it to be so good at our job functions - so competent - that when we're being replaced (for whatever reason) the employer must find a CMBA to get the same quality work output.

    Good point!
     
  7. tcmak

    tcmak New Member

    It is sad to know that the value of CMBA exam is about having IQ quizzes to fail people.

    The value of an MBA degree (or even any sensible graduation education as I know of) has never meant to be asking people digging into some exam prep books, repeating the test questions inside and take passing the exam as the ultimate goal.

    If anyone ever know such an MBA, please kindly let me know.

    The problem with CMBA, in my opinion, is the idea of "standardising" the education.... and yet limiting MBA education as a series of computer-based (IQ or memory) tests. This has nothing to do with how hard the questions are.

    MBA education, as far as I know and experienced, has a lot more than that, consulting projects, group discussion, case studies, and so on...

    If passing the CMBA exam means someone acquiring adequate knowledge in the business area. This requirement is then far too low. Running a small grocery/cafe maybe far more relevant than taking such exam.

     
  8. Han

    Han New Member

    AACSB has also changed their standards recently. They are not requiring a XX % of faculty to be full time tentured track (FT TT), just "Participating faculty". This has made a HUGE window for other schools, who would have never gotten accredited previously. "Participating" means adjuncts that publish, are a part of committees on campus, etc......... This is going to make a new world for many schools who could not get around the FT TT faculty issue. Should be interesting to see (in about 3-5 years) what schools get accredited and what that does to the AACSB reputation.

    Also, on the original question - AACSB only matters to academics, but some employers know about it and (like my past employer) only reimburse with professional accreditation. I think "online" has more stigma than accreditation issues in industry.
     
  9. macattack

    macattack New Member

    All this time I thought the programs were identical and only the name of the university was different ;)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 19, 2007
  10. macattack

    macattack New Member

    No. Don't blow things out of proportion.

    My opinion is that there may be an increased need for the AACSB degree in industry in the future. With so many options and relatively attractive prices, AACSB may be a good choice. http://www.geteducated.com/rankings/best_mbaaacsb.asp
     
  11. aic712

    aic712 Member

    What about ACBSP and IACBE? AACSB might be the most prestigious, but it isn't the only recognized professional business accreditor. ACBSP is CHEA recognized (equivalent to the recognition held by AACSB) IACBE has applied to become CHEA recognized.

    That's why I think it's irresponsible for companies like Intel to only accept AACSB accredited degrees when there are thousands of good schools out there accredited by other recognized agencies. Sounds like academic/corporate snobbery to me.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 19, 2007
  12. macattack

    macattack New Member

    There are employers that do not hire non-AACSB graduates, for example Proctor & Gamble.

    It's a choice they made after sending countless employees to schools like UoP. Apparently they did not like the results.
     
  13. macattack

    macattack New Member

  14. edowave

    edowave Active Member

    I'm not surprised the CMBA is more difficult than the ACT, GRE, MCAT, LSAT, or whatever. The more times you fail, the more times you pay to take the exam. That doesn't make it any more legitimate.

    My question is, where is this so called "oversight from a council of business executives experienced in MBA hiring and personnel" http://www.certifiedmba.com/cmba_advis_business.shtml and "cross-section of professors and other professionals from a variety of MBA programs. " http://www.certifiedmba.com/cmba_advis_academic.shtml"? There has not been a single individual, academic institution, or organization mentioned that is involved with the creation or grading of this exam. If this is such a good thing, why isn't anyone standing up and taking their credit?

    Frankly, I'm a little surprised why people are hesitant to label this a mill. Compare this to the CMA, CFA, CPA, PHR, SPHR, PMP, or any number of other business related certifications. You go directly to these organizations and you know exactly who the leadership is.

    As for WGU, they seem to be a good school that is trying to do something different. An MBA based on competency was the main reason I went with a UK based MBA (comprehensive exams with external examiners), rather than a US one. However in regards to the CMBA, I think WGU was conned.
     
  15. edowave

    edowave Active Member

  16. aic712

    aic712 Member


    I agree but, why would they exclude schools like Norwich, CSU Dominguez Hills, Marymount, and Nova Southeastearn that are much more respectable than phoenix, but are "only" IACBE or ACBSP? Like I said, it's seemingly elitist....

    It's not a question of quality, there are plenty of quality non-AACSB schools, and schools like phoenix, aiu and other FP's get all the attention....
     
  17. aic712

    aic712 Member

    I realize I quoted the wrong thing but it won't let me edit it. I was responding to the phoenix comment....
     
  18. BillDayson

    BillDayson New Member

    I'm only guessing, but it's possible that Intel doesn't feel that the company needs hordes of new MBAs, so they might just be hoping to reduce the amount of tuition-reimbursement funds that they spend on that degree by raising the bar a little.
     
  19. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    The concept is very interesting, as the MBA is becoming the standard business credential, it might be very useful to have something like the CPA for the MBAs.
     
  20. Dave Wagner

    Dave Wagner Active Member

    Perhaps they need help with designing their tests; the test should be "equivalent" each time it is taken.

    In your opinion, what is the overall utility of the CMBA designation?

    Dave
     

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