UoP dumped by Intel

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by Catlady, Dec 5, 2006.

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  1. jimnagrom

    jimnagrom New Member

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: UoP dumped by Intel

    QUOTE]Originally posted by Bruce


    If you're going to call me a liar Jim, just come out and say it. No need to be cute, we're all adults here.

    Believe me, I'd make a hell of a lot more if I worked overtime instead of teaching. I don't do it for the money. You, however, bad-mouth the school, yet cash the checks anyway. What does that say about your motivations?
    [/QUOTE]

    Actually, Bruce, I specifically did NOT call you a liar. It's a fairly common aspect of human psychology to "buy in" to whatever work your are doing - and I woiuld hope you would know that. The same "buy in" can be observed when someone enrolls in a school - then becomes an enthusiastic promoter of the school.

    What my criticism of the schools says - is that I continue to be objective despite the normal human urge to identify with them. I do exactly what I am asked to do - and more. It does not stop me from recognizing it's shortfalls -and as a FT faculty member at a state-supported institution - I have some grounds for comparision.

    If I may suggest - the above two points are things that you should have considered when making your posts. If you and Dave W.'s are both teachers at UoP - then stating that up front (as you did and Dave W did not) has to be a consideration in evaluating your posts. It's possible that your campuses academic leadership is different from Chicago's - but the DC area's associate faculty experiences track with Chicago's. And UoP does just about eveything in lockstep.

    If Dave W. has a DBA, I am morbidly curious as to what school he got it from - beacuse I would not have guessed that - I assumed he was worked on an MBA.
     
  2. Tekneek

    Tekneek New Member

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: What the heck ...

    I have not been around here enough to know about the internal politics of the board, so I won't speak about that. I'll take back what I said, then, if I'm sticking my nose into something that goes much deeper. It just doesn't make sense to question the academic qualifications of someone while making mistakes with your basic grammar. That's all I was really trying to express.

    I get the impression, perhaps mistakenly, that AACSB has been reluctant to embrace the distance learning methodology. It is interesting that it is ran by colleges, who get to set the criteria, control the membership, control the admissions, and so on. It's a nice little cartel they have going.
     
  3. Dave Wagner

    Dave Wagner Active Member

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: What the heck ...

    This is a really good question. There are now AACSB schools outside North America that offer limited-residency doctorates. Why not originating in North America? I don't know.

    Dave
     
  4. jimnagrom

    jimnagrom New Member

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: UoP dumped by Intel

    And this is why UoP prefers to hire people with limited post-secondary instructional experience. RA work done is based on credit hours - NOT whether it's a "5 or 6" week class. The work performed in a 5 week class 3 credit hour class should equate to the work performed in a semester-long 3 credit hour class. And it doesn't. Hence the "Learning Teams" to add "filler" to meet the requirement.
     
  5. Dave Wagner

    Dave Wagner Active Member

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: What the heck ...

    Welcome,

    Understood. Actually, there are no politics per se. There is at least one individual or perhaps more who blatantlly shill for NoCentral University. The person or persons create multiple login accounts and attack those who offer analysis and criticism of NoCentral.

    Currently, this person is attacking me for recent criticisms of NoCentral's overpriced MBA program and for correctlng their attacks on University of Phoenix instructional model. This is where it gets amusing, if you know the inside story. The person claims to have taught for University of Phoenix but shows outright contempt for students and the organization. Moreover, the individual keeps attacking me for having attained high levels of education. I earned an MBA from Santa Clara University, earned a DBA from California Pacific University (California State Approved but not RA), and am a doctoral student at Touro University International. It is fascinating to be attacked for ostensibly having more education than your attacker. Still, I harbor no ill will against that individual for their (misguided) behavior.

    Anyway, read posts with a "grain of salt". Sometimes the NoCentral shill(s) actually post interesting articles and have something good to say. In general, this board is filled with good and very smart people.

    Dave
     
  6. leejabron

    leejabron New Member

    Re: Re: OK...


    Try telling that to an MBA grad from York University or from Tanaka Business school (Imperial College)!

    Both are consistently in the top 100 WORLD MBA rankings and do not currently hold AACSB accreditation. In fact, if I remember correctly, Imperial has no present Professional accreditation outside the Royal Charter.

    Please dont tell me that Moorehead State or Wayne State's MBA programs are the "way to go" over the aforementioned schools because of the fact that the former has AACSB accreditation and the latter do not! Lets not lose sight of the fact that this type of accreditation is VOLUNTARY! Although I do agree that in MOST cases, AACSB should be the way to go, it should not be the deciding factor when choosing an MBA.
     
  7. jimnagrom

    jimnagrom New Member

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: What the heck ...

    And actually, THIS person is not attacking you at all - but it's interesting that you would characterize it as such.

    Apparently Dave W. treats any disagreement as an attack - and dismisses any criticisms as "less eduaction" (as opposed to "higher degree) - the two are not the same.

    How about this - Dave W. is a good guy and often tries to help. He's very proud of his DBA and occasionaly lets people irritate him and is human enough to put his foot in his mouth. He is a business professional - not an academic professional.
     
  8. Dave Wagner

    Dave Wagner Active Member

    Re: Re: Re: OK...

    It all depends on your needs, preparation, and financial resources. I haven't seen an AACSB program that doesn't require a GMAT score or have an experienced-based process for waiving it, but one might exist.

    Colorado State's AACSB Distance MBA isn't cheap at $547 per semester hour:

    http://www.biz.colostate.edu/mba/distance/faq.htm

    However, Western Kentucky Unversity offers it's AACSB eMBA at $391 per semester hour:

    http://www.wku.edu/emba/RequiredCourses.html

    Some MBA programs without AACSB are substantially less expensive and a few are more.

    Dave
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 7, 2006
  9. AuditGuy

    AuditGuy Member

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: UoP dumped by Intel

    Thanks for the clarifications Bruce.

    The first part squares with my teaching experience

    The second part squares with common sense.
     
  10. Bruce

    Bruce Moderator

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: UoP dumped by Intel

    I strongly disagree. UoP recently revamped a few of their CJA courses, and when I was looking at the new requirements, I actually felt sorry for the students. It's the same or more work I was required to do during my undergrad program at a B&M school, and I had more time to do it.

    Jim, if you feel so negatively about UoP, why do you continue to work for them? I taught for a very short time at a NA school, and because I was uncomfortable with the academic rigor and quality of students, I no longer accept teaching offers from them.
     
  11. jimnagrom

    jimnagrom New Member

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: UoP dumped by Intel

    Bruce, you can certainly strongly disagree. Unless you are and have been FT faculty in post-secondary higher ed for at least 10 years I'm not sure how much weight to give your disagreement. You comment re: "How much work your students do for five weeks" makes it very clear you have no visibility on how much they SHOULD be doing.

    I imagine there's quite a bit regarding CJ that I do not know - but I do try to watch "Law and Order" on a regular basis. The difference is - I know that I am not an CJ professional. You and Dave W. appear to think that being an adjunct makes you an education professional.

    Are you so unhappy with your FT CJ career?
     
  12. Bruce

    Bruce Moderator

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: UoP dumped by Intel

    Like the FT professor I had at a very traditional B&M school who would do little more than talk in a lecture hall full of about 150 people? :rolleyes:

    Jim, if you do in fact teach for UoP, you know the course material is developed by the same FT faculty you seem to hold in such high esteem.

    You seem to think I've forgotten the amount of work I had to do in my own degree programs. I've told you that UoP requires as much, usually more work than I had to do at a RA B&M school. You refuse to acknowledge this.

    Did I ever say I was unhappy with my career? No, I don't believe I did. I'm perfectly content with my law enforcement career, and as I mentioned, I could make more working OT than teaching. A very generous salary and some smart investments have left me a in a position to not really need the extra money. I teach simply because I enjoy it, it keeps my mind sharp, and I like to think I'm a positive role model for those who are trying to further their education, much as I did many years ago.

    Now, I answered your question. Please answer mine, especially because this is the third time I've asked you;

    If you have such negative feelings towards UoP, why do you continue to work for them?
     
  13. Dave Wagner

    Dave Wagner Active Member

    jimnagrom is fake

    Hi Bruce,

    He or she will probably not be able to answer your question. My guess was that this person doesn't work for UOP and this was just confirmed; apparently, the whole jimnagrom persona is fake.

    Dave
     
  14. jimnagrom

    jimnagrom New Member

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: UoP dumped by Intel

    Brucey,

    Neither you nor I know the full picture of that FT professor you mention - but it does indicate that you don't know what you don't know with regards to education.

    As the FT UoP faculty - I don't know enough to know what their qualifications are - I've never met one of the FT faculty - but UoP pays bupkis for everything I DO see. ;)

    Since I have no idea how much work you did in your own degree program - why should I aknowledge that? You missed the point (again) - UoP's solution to covering a semester worth of 3 credits is the Learning Teams - essentially an accounting dodge. Sayig that you student "work really hard in their 5 weeks" simply reveals an poor understanding of post-secondary education.

    As for being happy with your career - you spend an inordinate amount of time during the working day on this forum - for someone who is happy with their FT job - as does Dave W. Education IS my FT job - and I'm off today. You?

    I have little professional respect for UoP's program because I AM a professional - I taught classes, developed curriculum, undergone the RA accreditation process, etc., and I know the difference between low standards and high standards. I'll say it again, with UoP, the poor pay more - as they do in many things. For some people, UoP is a good fit - it can be a stepping stone to help people realize their potential.

    John Sperling, Chair and CEO of the Apollo Group that owns UOP: “This is a corporation, not a social entity. Coming here is not a rite of passage. We are not trying to develop their value systems or go in for that ‘expand their minds’ bullshit.” ("Phoenix Ascending,” Ana Marie Cox, In These Times, May 13, 2002.)"
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 8, 2006
  15. jimnagrom

    jimnagrom New Member

    Re: jimnagrom is fake

    And we're back to "open mouth, insert foot in mouth".

    Dave, your ability to make helpful posts and then be completley childish is remarkable. ;)

    Not to mention - I hope you weren't being paid at work today - since you were here. :D
     
  16. Bruce

    Bruce Moderator

    You call yourself a professional? :rolleyes:

    Because, and I can't believe I have to repeat this yet again, UoP requires just as much, if not more work for their undergrad courses as did my undergrad alma mater, a 100+ year-old, very traditional B&M college who employ the FT Ph.D. academics you're so enamored with. Same or more work. Get it this time?

    That's interesting....I'll have to let my sister-in-law know that all the group projects she did at Harvard Business School were an accounting dodge, and her professors really have a poor understanding of post-secondary education.

    I had in-service training at the police academy today, so I have tonight off. If you can show even a single instance of me even logging-in to this board when I was working, I'll eat my shorts on national TV. Believe me, I don't have time to surf the Internet while I'm working, even if I had access in the police cruiser, which I don't. There's those pesky things like domestics, bar fights, and shots-fired calls that get in the way.

    THEN WHY DO YOU STILL WORK FOR THEM???

    For the love of God, would you just answer the question??? That makes it the fourth time I've asked you.
     
  17. jimnagrom

    jimnagrom New Member

    Actually, yes - and I have a track record to prove it.

    For example: As a list administrator - it's really not professional of you to become emotionally involved in a discussion - and you certainly appear to be - you need to back off a bit - and I should not have to tell you this, Mr. Administrator.

    For example, Dave W. has insulted me, has wished I'd lose my livelihood, as implied he tried to "stalk" me...exactly when are you planning to do you job with regards to his highly unprofessional behavior?

    So quit indulging yourself, check your ego at the door, and do your job. :mad:
     
  18. Bruce

    Bruce Moderator

    Okay, Jim. I'll ask again, for the fifth time, as unemotionally as possible;

    Since you have such a negative opinion of UoP, why do you continue to work for them?

    I'm going to keep asking it until you answer.

    After you mull that for awhile, here's a question you should surely be able to easily answer;

    On 12/6/06, a mass e-mailing went out to all UoP faculty members. Since you say that includes you, you'll certainly be able to tell everyone what the subject of that e-mail was, right?
     
  19. Robbie

    Robbie New Member

    Greetings CalDog - I stand corrected. I did not intend to make a blanket statement about all Professional Accreditation agencies. However, there are many Professional Accreditation agencies that require regional accreditation as an eligibility requirement.

    ;)
     
  20. Robbie

    Robbie New Member

    Gets kind of personal and nasty around here doesn't it? But Bruce does put an excellent question on the board.

    I generally try not to get involved in these type of combat debates, but I am interested in Jim's response to this one out of pure curiosity.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 8, 2006
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