Is it OK for degree mills to give certificates?

My position is that if you can learn something for the process at Rushmore, the $7000 maybe worth it. Meaning you can learn to author a book or write a great business plan that can win, thats value.

May you are focus too much on the paper itself and not what you get from the experience.

 

And maybe you are too willing (even eager) to accept a lie as truth.

Where'd you go to school?

 

All my education were with B&M schools. Anyone that just simply want recognition should not just go to B&M but to the Elite ones like MIT, Stanford and Harvard. The simple problem is that your degree would be treated as inferior if its not from the well known schools. If someone truely want to learn to be successful then thats a different question.

TESC and Excelsior are well accredited schools, you can take exams for 100% for getting the degree. Does that make you more successful? I doubt that process alone would.

Now if Rushmore gives you skills you can use to succeed, then forget about the paper itself and take the success.

Obviously these schools cater for a specific niche, meaning not for everyone. DL is definitely not for everyone in general.

 

Yes, frauds.

 

I'll make this simple. TESC's and Excelsior's grant of degrees for 100% exams has been independently evaluated by the same accreditors that evaluate traditional RA degrees earned with classroom, online, television, portfolio assessment, CD and videotape credit. No independent entity has evaluated Rushmore's "degrees" against any accepted standard. .

Those that go through this process at an accredited school demonstrate that they had knowledge equivalent to a traditional no-questions-asked-fully-accredited degree or obtained that knowledge through the process.

A Rushmore degree demonstrates . . . . ???

 

I was not aware of all these details about mills and Rushmore, so maybe I can rephrase my question.


I am thinking about an unaccredited school in my example (I'll call it Easier College). When it comes to degrees, this unaccredited school require less effort than most RA schools, for instance. In the same way that most online schools are less time consuming that Ivy League schools, Easier College would be less time consuming than Capella, for instance. They'd would have good intentions, lets say, but still not enough structure to deliver teh same quality as most RAs (pretty much like most universities in some undeveloped countries).

The school would still produce decent work, and teach somehow, but yet substandard on their degrees (most degreeinfo memebrs would believe that the school should not have accreditation yet).

Now let's say that Easier College offers a short Executive Education course. The course is very good, as good as a Harvard one, and maybe with a well known speaker/teacher.

That's where my doubt lies. Would a course like this be a reasonable addition to a resume?


And expanding, what if Easier College acknowledges its lack of expertise/resources to offer doctorates and such, and start giving only Certificate courses until it gets more experience in the field? Would Easier College Certificates be OK? What about long courses with Certificates, like a management nondegree that takes a year?

Discuss, and have a good week. Thanks for your time, everybody.

 

Leaving aside the whole degree-mill/unaccredited thing I will tell you this:

I have completed a Business Managment certificate program that is offered by Bisk Education along with Tulane University. It consisted of a seried of lectures and open book, multiple choice tests. It was evaluated by the American Council on Education (ACE) for continuing education units (CEUs) and has since been evaluated by ACE for college credit. It is the external evaluation by a credible third party that made the progam worthwhile to me. I list it on my resume as training, not education.

 

Example

Well a friend of mine completed a degree at the Bachelors level from an unaccredited foreign school with contract learning with two Indian mentors- one with an MBA and one a lawyer. The program was for General Business and consisted of a fairly rigorous busiiness training program and a legal component taking around three years of work. He noted this as a degree earned with the two gentleman as references and that it was unaccredited- but added some details under other information. He seems not to have any trouble using this degree as a degree. One thing he did was place the contract, topics covered and all the relevant details on his own web site so employers could see the work he did. Includes a book list, results of projects and actual other information including his mentors credentials. A smart move I might add. If your wondering he is doing a post-graduate certificate at a regular college and had no trouble getting into it- is for international business law.

As for certificates I think placing it under other training would suffice after all if you took a CEU course you would place it there, on-the-job training or other credentials. If I received a unaccredited degree for example with marginal training compared to a regular college what is wrong with noting it there as well.

 

Re: Example

I think that the difference between a certificate and an unaccredited degree is the word "degree". "Degree" implies something very specific, while a certificate is less specific.

My undergraduate certificate in women's studies from UConn had a very different format from the Bisk/Tulane business certificate.

 

Currently, there is no real requirement for accredited certificates, therefore, I do not you having the same issues as with a degree.

The name and reputation of the school and faculty is what would drive the whole recognition thing.

You probably could use the certificate from unaccredited school in Oregon without any problems but not the degree.

 

IDEA?

How about instead of degrees from an unaccredited school they can call them Extended Content Certificates (ECC's) or Career Path Diplomas or Dedicated Learner Certificates (DLC) would that get around the diploma mill laws?

 

It all depends on the restrictions. For example City & Guilds in the UK offers degree type awards but they are not called degrees. They are well respected and even Universities give them out for CGI.

Of course the difference is that CGI has accredited status anyway.

The key for any entity to issue a paper thats respected depends on how its given and the persons giving it..

Is the word Diploma restricted? That may sound more acceptable.

 

In restropect as we argue about what is diploma mill etc. I realize that the cancer that affects both sides of the debate is money and quality suffers in the process.

Accredited Schools want to protect the status quo so they will fight to keep any new cheaper concept out. On the other hand the diploma mill has to sell as much degrees as possible so the requirements are very low.

The people in the middle will suffer depending on wether they are unaccredited or accredited.

 

That's crap. Legitimately accredited programs can be found for much less money than a milled "degree". Community colleges offer AS programs for very little money. DETC schools like Andrew Jackson, FLET, and California Coast offer degrees for far less than an operation like Rushmore. The difference is that you'd have to work for your degree instead of just buying one.

There is no longer any reason for a legitimate accademic program to be unaccredited.

 

Fair point. I spoke too broadly.

 

If Rushmore charges $7000 for a degree, there must be some value to it. There is no way people pay that amount just to get a piece of paper in the mail. Thats plain common sense.

Accreditation does involve cost too, so a well intention low budget college could take more than 2 years to get it. Secondly, what's illegal if a school choose not to be accredited? that's a question that lingers in my mind all this time.


Stop seeing the glass as half empty.

 

Nonsense, price is not determined by the value of a product, price is determined by what the market will bear. Rushmore has determined that the average, self-entitled, deluded dreamer will pay $7k for a "degree" so that is what they ask.

It's not legal to use an unaccredited degree in Oregon or New Jersey. Perhaps that should linger in your mind.

Also, it's legal for me to print myself a degree on my PC, and to call myself "Doctor" in casual conversation. Of course, it's also accademically meaningless for me to do so. Same with mills.

Stop believing every website you read.

 

Hi:

I could present all my documents in both Oregon and New Jersey without any issues, so I am not worried about that. The same law that makes unaccredited degrees illegal would apply to the upstart genuine school as well.

We can finish the Rushmore debate now. But I fail to believe everything on their website would be a lie.

For example, the concept of entering a PhD or MSc course without a previous degree is actually practiced in most commonwealth countries except probably Canada.

My Masters with a well established B&M university in the UK, uses the same format as that proposed by Rushmore. You develop learn contract and then perform the research and relevant learning to deliver assignments and thesis.

 

Not so. People commonly pay large sums of money for legally worthless documents. There is a thriving market for fake driver's licenses, counterfeit social security cards, and bogus passports, as well as phony college degrees.

In the US, there is nothing illegal about a school that chooses to be unaccredited. If you want to offer unaccredited coursework over the Internet, or in your garage, no one can stop you from doing so. You have a constitutional right to free speech.

Degrees, on the other hand, are regulated. There is no constitutional right to confer degrees. So states can, and do, establish regulations about degree validity and use.