Just a tad pissed off

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Discussions' started by Jack Tracey, Aug 11, 2001.

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  1. Bruce

    Bruce Moderator

    Wow...thanks for those two gems Gus, this is certainly getting interesting.

    Bruce
     
  2. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    Calling him a fraud is really a little harsh, don't you think? I had assumed that much of what you pointed out was cut and pasted.

    In any case, I feel that the MacDonalds training crack was a total exaggeration. RA does have other criteria than just mission statements.

    Also when I was poking around some of the UK higher education web sites a couple years ago, I seem to remember some statements about the UK trying to encourage self evaluation amongst the Universities in a manner similar to RA?
     
  3. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    Perhaps it's because I'm only familar with the system in California and I have assumed that RA is the same in other areas of the USA?

    What area is the 4 schools that you taught at? Was the problem you're referring to in not ensuring that the students knew the material or something else?
     
  4. Gus Sainz

    Gus Sainz New Member

    I do not capriciously resort to name-calling, Bill; I choose my words carefully. This is not a case of a one-time minor cut-and–paste (which, in any event, is still plagiarism and is discussed in the student handbook of practically every institution of higher learning along with the penalties, which range from failing the course to outright expulsion from the institution). Lewchuk has, in various posts, intentionally perverted the truth. He has exhibited a pattern of deception and misrepresentation of not only facts, but of another author’s true intentions and ideas. By cutting-and pasting” (without even bothering to even paraphrase, mind you) without attribution, he is attempting to deceive the reader that the words and ideas are his own. He has done this, because lacking solid (any?) evidence to oft-stated positions, he has cast ethics and intellectual honesty aside, in order to be perceived as more knowledgeable, articulate, and eloquent than he truly is. And that is precisely how most dictionaries define a fraud: a person who is not what he or she pretends to be.

    And, contrary to what Lewchuk would like you to believe, of course the Regional Accreditors have other criteria besides mission statements. But even the mission statements themselves must conform to their standards. According to the Middle States Commission on Higher Education, “an institution applying for Candidate for Accreditation status must have a clearly stated mission, with goals and objectives consistent with the aspirations and expectations of higher education” (http://www.msache.org/ques5.html).

    It is my opinion, that those of you awaiting Lewchuk to provide evidence that the United States has the worst schools, state where he earned his undergraduate degree, or inform you of the name or location of the schools where he taught, that information will not be forthcoming, or if so, unverifiable.


    Gus Sainz
     
  5. BillDayson

    BillDayson New Member

    Lewchuk gave some of that information a couple of years ago on AED. I'm not sure that a C&P of the long link will work, so I'll paraphrase. He says he graduated from an AABC Bible college in Alberta (Western Pentacostal Bible College) with a bachelors degree in religion. He claims he taught as an adjunct professor of theology at another small Canadian Bible college with that bachelors. At the time he wrote his post (and continuing today I believe) he was an H-W MBA student. There was no mention of teaching at any other colleges or universities, and with only an AABC bachelors that is unlikely.

    It's interesting that his old AED post came as part of a whole series of posts in which he was defending Trinity College and Seminary in Indiana (and trying to bait Steve Levicoff in the process as he now does Lawrie).

    Lewchuk has grown much more fastidious in his defense of "quality", or at least in his rhetorical line, since then. While he has kept his core of disdain for RA intact, he seems to have revolved 180 degrees around it, from arguing that non-accredited schools are just as good as RA to arguing that most of RA is no good. I guess it parallels his personal shift from identification with his Bible college bachelors to his H-W masters.
    http://groups.google.com/groups?q=lewchuk+BA+bible+college+alberta+group:alt.education.distance&hl=en&safe=off&scoring=r&rnum=1&selm=7m0thr%24t2i%241%40nnrp1.deja.com
     
  6. mamorse

    mamorse New Member

    If the world consisted only of the US, the UK, Canada, and Australia, then I might agree that the US has some of the world's worst schools. However, whether Lewchuk wishes to admit it or not, there are (IMO) a large number of developing countries that possess nothing remotely approaching the standards of American regional accrediting bodies. Thus, the contention that the US contains a majority of the world's worst schools becomes exceeedingly difficult to believe as well as impossible to prove.

    As you know Bruce, no such objective evidence exists. The best he could do would be to post the subjective opinions of others that agreed with his claims.

    Mark
     
  7. Caballero Lacaye

    Caballero Lacaye New Member


    Hello, Mark!

    I am not defending Lewchuk here, but I think that when he says that the United States has the world's worse schools, he actually means "the world's worse schools in the industrialized English-speaking world".

    Isn't that what you mean, Lewchuk? Otherwise, would you be so kind in enlighten us?

    Cordially,


    Karlos Alberto Lacaye
     
  8. Caballero Lacaye

    Caballero Lacaye New Member


    Hello, Mark!

    I am not defending Lewchuk here, but I think that when he says that the United States has the world's worse schools, he actually means "the world's worse schools in the industrialized English-speaking world".

    Isn't that what you mean, Lewchuk? Otherwise, would you be so kind to enlighten us?

    Cordially,


    Karlos Al "El Caballero" Lacaye
    [email protected]
     
  9. Lewchuk

    Lewchuk member

    Perhaps I should be a bit more careful for newbies but, as you suggest, I think it was pretty obvious that these were not my words.


     
  10. Lewchuk

    Lewchuk member

    Better to post without attribution than, as in your case, post without contribution.

    Seriously, methinks it is pretty obvious that it was from an external source... as evidenced by your searching for that source... but if it makes you feel better here I go (bad Lewchuk, bad bad Lewchuk).

    Meanwhile, once again, another meaningless post which has nothing to do with the issue.

     
  11. Lewchuk

    Lewchuk member

    I never said that paragraph was mine and obviously you recognized it wasn't which was why you surfed the net to find the source. Congratulations, I commend you surfing ability.

    Meanwhile, again you contribute nothing to the issue but merely try to smear my posts. I trust you find this satisfying.

     
  12. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    A bit more careful for the old hands more so than the newbies, I think.

    So I guess that means that regarding how well RA ensures quality education we'll just have to agree to disagree then?

    I'm also giving up on anyone telling me who this Tad is and why he's pissed off. But did we break the record for the longest thread, yet? If not then I would just like to say that whoever this Tad guy is I don't like him and I think that he got his degree at a degree mill.

    Have fun,
     
  13. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    Now Lewchuk, you know that is not the way it works. It is normally assumed to be your own words unless stated otherwise.

    Note: the above is my own words.

    Actually everything is my own words except the stuff marked "quote". Okay okay truth be told these are not really MY words. I have seen them all before and do not claim to have made them up or even have exclusive ownership over them. I just believe that the why I've put them together is unique. (and I'm sure we're all glad about that)

    See it really does work better to assume that they are my words unless stated otherwise.
     
  14. Lewchuk

    Lewchuk member

    Yes, MacDonalds was an exaggeration to make a point.

    However, two things are very cleary about RA:
    1) Output standards are fairly vague and, as my previous quote suggests, prescribes only a very basic standards
    2) RA is heavily process oriented over output oriented.

    If you understand the values of US education this makes much sense... the independence of the institution, etc..

    UK standard setting is very regulated. Relatively stringent detailed/public output standards maintained via a system of cross validation (external examiners, etc.) which is incentivised via public funding.

    If you understand the value of UK education this makes much sense (very high standards, specific outcomes, limited access).


     
  15. Lewchuk

    Lewchuk member

    I heavily "negotiated" at 4 schools but only taught at through one (couldn't coordinate needs, schedules, I didn't like them, they didn't like me, etc.) in the field of business. The three were smallish private schools.

    The issues were the same ones raised regarding NCU. The amount of information / level of information was very juvenile for a University level course. I questioned this at one school and was told "they have to cut-back for the night classes because the students get tired".... interesting. It has been posted that the Phd courses at NCU look like a Canadian undergraduate course.


     
  16. Lewchuk

    Lewchuk member

    ROTFLMAO... yes, where I earned my degrees has a direct impact upon the low average quality of the American higher education system.

    Again, the droll exercise of "bulverising" the source instead of discussing the issue.


    It is my opinion, that those of you awaiting Lewchuk to provide evidence that the United States has the worst schools, state where he earned his undergraduate degree, or inform you of the name or location of the schools where he taught, that information will not be forthcoming, or if so, unverifiable.


    Gus Sainz[/B][/QUOTE]
     
  17. Lewchuk

    Lewchuk member

    OK Bill, you have much of this incorrect.

    It's interesting that his old AED post came as part of a whole series of posts in which he was defending Trinity College and Seminary in Indiana (and trying to bait Steve Levicoff

    Yes, I was baiting Steve back then but it was sooooo much fun.

    in the process as he now does Lawrie).

    I do not "bait" Lawrie, I ridicule the notion that the fast and easy degrees that some people earn are comparable with those from credible schools (there is a difference).

    Lewchuk has grown much more fastidious in his defense of "quality", or at least in his rhetorical line, since then. While he has kept his core of disdain for RA intact, he seems to have revolved 180 degrees around it, from arguing that non-accredited schools are just as good as RA to arguing that most of RA is no good.

    I don't see how this is contrary... yes, some non-accredited school are just as good as RA (from a educational point of view). Saying that "most of RA is not good" is a dangeroust statement... much of RA is not up to generally accepted academic standards may be closer.

    I guess it parallels his personal shift from identification with his Bible college bachelors to his H-W masters.

    Actually, Jesus spoke much about money and business.


    http://g roups.google.com/groups?q=lewchuk+BA+bible+college+alberta+group:alt.education.distance&hl=en&safe=off&scoring=r&rnum=1&selm=7m0thr%24t2i%241%40nnrp1.deja.com


    [/B][/QUOTE]
     
  18. Lewchuk

    Lewchuk member

    Sure

     
  19. Lewchuk

    Lewchuk member

    What is quite interesting, from a Sociological point of view, is that Canada, the UK and Australia combined probably have about 300 degree-granting schools... the US, say, has 3000. Which means technically that the US could still have 1,200 degree granting schools better than the others and still have the "worst" schools... however the mere suggestion of this is scandalous.... interesting.

     
  20. mamorse

    mamorse New Member

    Hello, Karlos! I would agree that he likely meant that, but wanted to see him precisely state that. By some estimates, the world population is now over 6 billion people. The [solely] English speaking countries alone probably don't even account for 0.5 billion. An equal, if not greater, number of people speak Spanish. (Not to mention well over 1 billion Indians and well over 1 billion Chinese.) Surely they're part of the world too?
    [/B][/QUOTE]

    Mark
     

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