Ph.D W/O Master?

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by TEKMAN, May 17, 2006.

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  1. TEKMAN

    TEKMAN Semper Fi!

    Does anybody know any RA school offers Ph.D program that does not require Master degree?

    Thanks...
     
  2. JLV

    JLV Active Member

    If you don´t mind going abroad, Newcastle en Australia accepts bachelor graduates for their DBA program. I think also British universities may do it, but I think it is unusual.
     
  3. PAULWENLIUESQ

    PAULWENLIUESQ Member

    Why bother going abroad when you can get the same deal (or better yet, a Ph.D) from NCU (100% RA)?
     
  4. PhD2B

    PhD2B Dazed and Confused

    You'll find that a masters degree is not always required for a doctorate. I had a professor at ODU that had a PhD from Princeton and did not have a masters degree. He went straight from bachelors to PhD.

    The drawback to this is schools that don't require a masters degree for their doctoral program will require a lot of additional coursework. For instance, NCU requires 81 credit hours of graduate coursework for their doctoral programs. I transferred in 30 graduate credits from my masters, which left me with 51 credit hours to complete with NCU. When I got accepted in ODU's PhD program, ODU required 78 credit hours of graduate coursework for their doctoral program. Again, I transferred in 30 credits, which left me with 48 credits to complete through them.

    My advice, if you are looking for an RA doctorate, complete an RA masters degree first. This way, in the event you wash out of the doctoral program, you'll at least have something to fall back on. Going straight from a bachelors degree to a doctorate may seem like a shortcut but it is not.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 17, 2006
  5. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    The drawback to this is schools that don't require a masters degree for their doctoral program will require a lot of additional coursework. For instance, NCU requires 81 credit hours of graduate coursework for their doctoral programs. I transferred in 30 graduate credits from my masters, which left me with 51 credit hours to complete with NCU. When I got accepted in ODU's PhD program, ODU required 78 credit hours of graduate coursework for their doctoral program. Again, I transferred in 30 credits, which left me with 48 credits to complete through them.

    Right. It's like asking whether you can get a Bachelor's without getting an Associate's. The answer is yes, but typically it doesn't save you any time.

    My advice, if you are looking for an RA doctorate, complete an RA masters degree first. This way, in the event you wash out of the doctoral program, you'll at least have something to fall back on. Going straight from a bachelors degree to a doctorate may seem like a shortcut but it is not.

    Exactly so. Similarly, I advise my students to get Associate's degrees even if they're Bachelor's degree students, and for the same reason.

    -=Steve=-
     
  6. Jeff Walker

    Jeff Walker New Member

    One potentially major difference is in the amount of research required. Many masters degrees require coursework and a masters thesis. You typically don't get to use any of your master thesis research directly for part of your PhD dissertation. If the masters isn't thesis-based, this obviously isn't an issue.

    As far as coursework is concerned, you are generally right. While many places limit the amount of masters credit that can be applied to the doctorate, typically this limit is around 30 hours, so very little of the masters coursework is wasted.
     
  7. morleyl

    morleyl New Member

    The UK and Australia may have this approach, since PhD is more research than course base. As long as you can complete the research and defend then you can start with a Bachelor.
     
  8. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    Yes, but you need to have an honours bachelors degree that normally requires one year of full time study after the bachelor's degree.
     
  9. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    Yes, but since an Ordinary/Pass Bachelor's is only three years in Commonwealth countries, the Honours Bachelor's is therefore four years, as Americans would expect. Commonwealth universities will accept a regionally accredited American Bachelor's degree as the equivalent of an Honours Bachelor's.

    -=Steve=-
     
  10. JLV

    JLV Active Member


    Perhaps in Australia, but that is not the case for the UK where the Bachelor´s degrees are three year long if studied full time. Honors, second class honors, pass, etc depend on one´s grades, not on length of study.
     
  11. Ted Heiks

    Ted Heiks Moderator and Distinguished Senior Member

    Perhaps I'm a bit confused, but I thought that, in the Commonwealth countries, the honours bachelor's basically meant writing a bachelor's thesis after completing the ordinary three-year bachelor's. Can anyone clarify?
     
  12. Yan

    Yan New Member

    Honours Bachelor Degrees

    The system for honours bachelor degrees is quite inconsistent around the world. For example:

    US: 4-year bachelor degrees with no honours (I mean 'honours' is not stated in the testamur)

    UK: 3-year bachelor degrees with honours (it depends on the academic performance; those barely passed the exam get the ordinary degrees)

    Scotland: 4-year bachelor degrees with honours (scotland's bachelor degrees are 4-year degrees)

    Aust: 3-year bachelor degrees with no honours, one more year of study for honour bachelor degrees (preparing for those want to study PhD; otherwise, one may study for post graduate diploma)

    SA: 3-year bachelor degrees with no honours, an honour bachelor degree represents an additional year of study on top of the ordinary degree

    HK: All universities (except Open University) offers 3-year bachelor degrees with honours (ordinary degrees are for those with below average academic performance). Open University offers both ordinary bachelor degrees (120 units - equivalent to 3 years' full time study) and honour bachelor degrees (160 units - equivalent to 4 years' full time study, i.e. one additional year of study). In the next few years, all HK bachelor degrees will be changed to 4-year bachelor degrees (similar to the education system in China).

    Most Asian countries: use the UK system as many of those countries are British former colonies.

    Under the UK system, those with good bachelor degrees (with 1st class or 2nd upper honours) can study for PhD directly without MPhil.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 20, 2006
  13. TEKMAN

    TEKMAN Semper Fi!

    hmmm.. I learned a lot about school system around the world after posting this topic. Anyway, somehow I am not interested in foreign schools........I just want to stay with U.S School system.

    Well, I plan to go to Southern Methodist University...and maybe Ph.D at Nova Southeastern University, University of Texas at Dallas, or North Central University.

    BTW, Thanks for the inputs...

    Semper Fidelis..................
     
  14. melphd

    melphd New Member

    Re: Honours Bachelor Degrees

    I'm confused. I thought that bachelor degrees in Europe were at least 5 years long or longer than US bachelors degrees. Now I'm hearing that they are shorter. Can anyone clarify this? thanks.
     
  15. Yan

    Yan New Member

    Re: Re: Honours Bachelor Degrees

    You may check through this website:
    http://www.unesco.org/iau/onlinedatabases/index.html
     
  16. JLV

    JLV Active Member

    Re: Re: Honours Bachelor Degrees

    Most European countries had 5 year long degrees. Now they have adopted the Bologna convention by which those titles are called Master´s and they have created an early exit, a three year degree called bachelor´s. Something like a 3+ 2 type of degrees. That is how it is in continental Europe. The UK has a very similar education system to that of America, but their bachelor degrees are three year long if studied full time. Regards
     
  17. dl_mba

    dl_mba Member

    University of Newcastle - DBA

    http://www.gradschool.com.au/study/programs/doctor_business_admin_new.asp

    Admission Criteria

    The minimum entry requirement is a recognised Bachelor degree and 2 years work experience post graduation. Applicants who do not hold a Masters level qualification are encouraged to apply for the Master of Business program in the first instance
     
  18. Gideon

    Gideon New Member

    After my nephew and niece graduated with Bachelor degrees both did PhD degrees, respectively in Music and Georgaphy, at Bristol University, England. I registered for a Masters at Leicester Unievrsity after BA but they let me go for the PhD without doing a Masters after all. A friend at the Univeristy of Southern Queensland, Australia, went straight to a PhD in Psychology after doing his BA.
     
  19. In Australia, it certainly is possible to enter a Ph.D course with an honours bachelor degree. According to what I read in a newspaper report on postgraduate studies, this is now much more common than the traditional route of bachelors, honours, masters and then Ph.D. As I understand it, the amount of work you have to do for the doctorate is the same in any case (usually a thesis of about 100,000 words).

    The honours year is usually made up of some advanced course work and a thesis of 15-20,000 words. In order to enter the Ph.D, you need to receive either first class or upper second class honours. Some faculties only allow first class honours holders to do a doctorate. In that case there can still be the option of a research masters in order to then enter the Ph.D
     

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