Doctoral degree without Master

Discussion in 'The Monterrey Institute for Graduate Studies' started by Mary J. Dutton, Oct 24, 2001.

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  1. Caballero Lacaye

    Caballero Lacaye New Member


    Hello, Rich!

    I was going to comment on that before, but time is flying.

    Yes, some academics from there list their "doctorados" as Ph.D.'s, but this is not completely accurate. Why? Because, for example, a "Doctorado en Administración de Empresas" (a "Doctorate in Business Administration") could actually be the equivalent of a Ph.D. or a D.B.A. or a D.Phil or a D.Com, or what have you? In my humble opinion, it is more accurate to simply list, for example, "Karlos A. Lacaye, Doctoral degree".

    Sincerely yours,


    Karlos Alberto Lacaye
    [email protected]
     
  2. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Thanks, Karlos. However, the question wasn't what degree was awarded, or how it should be listed, but rather how these degrees are listed in English. I just did a search on Google using the terms "Ph.D." and "universidad." I got 71,000 hits. Combining the two terms in quotes (which means they're required to be next to each other and in that order) returned 1,120 hits. Using "doctorate universidad" returned 11, most of them being honorary or juris doctorates.

    While no means a comprhensive research project, it does seem to lend credence to the supposition that holders of doctorados often list their degrees as "Ph.D."

    Rich Douglas
     
  3. Caballero Lacaye

    Caballero Lacaye New Member


    Hello, Rich!

    Greetings!

    I understand your point of view, but let me politely tell you that a D.B.A., a D.Com, and a D.Phil are also doctorates from English-speaking nations.

    On a related note, if we switch the Ph.D. (Philosophy Degree) into Spanish, I wouldn't like to be listed as "Karlos A. Lacaye, G.D. (Grado en Filosofía)".

    Politely yours,


    Karlos Alberto Lacaye
    [email protected]
     
  4. Caballero Lacaye

    Caballero Lacaye New Member

     
  5. Caballero Lacaye

    Caballero Lacaye New Member

    Hello, there!

    By the way, "doctoral degree" and "universidad" have around 900 entries on Yahoo.

    Bye for now,

    K>A>L>
     
  6. Caballero Lacaye

    Caballero Lacaye New Member


    Dear friends,

    After a little bit of research, I have found out that students from France, Germany, and Spain do not get Ph.D.'s as terminal higher degrees, either. They get Doctorats, Doktors, and Doctorados, respectively. On the other hand, the United States and the United Kingdom are mentioned as countries offering Ph.D.'s as higher terminal degrees. Please see this nice comparative table on page 8 of this article according to the Ministry of Flemish Community:

    http://www.vlir.be/Downloads/ip0001br.pdf

    Additionally, according to "Vlaamse Interuniversitaire Raad", while there have been efforts to standarize higher terminal degrees and other degrees, "it is difficult to match these diplomas with those of other systems in other countries. Let us simply compare the structure and official terminology of Flemish university education with some of our neighbouring countries. The equivalency of diplomas is not automatic. Every country has the right to decide, on a case-by-case basis, whether or not to accept the equivalency of the foreign degree". Please check this page out:

    http://www.vlir.be/fluniv/univedu.htm

    Indeed, the "University of Warwick" in England only accepts some Doctorats, Doktors, and Doctorados at the UK Master's or UK MPhil's level. Again, please see:

    http://www.warwick.ac.uk/services/gradschool/gshandbook/c.pdf

    Moreover, I would like to point out that of the five or six non-English speaking European universities that I just visited on the Internet, none of them says that its Doctorats, Doctors, or Doctorados are to be translated as Ph.D.'s in an English-speaking scenario, and this taking into account that their Web-pages are in English.

    As a conclusion, I still stand by my very humble opinion that the best way to translate a Doctorat, Doktor, and Doctorado into English is by simply writing "Doctoral Degree".

    Cordially yours,


    Karlos Alberto Lacaye
    [email protected]
     
  7. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I appreciated the links you posted as they made interesting reading.

    I have heard before that the Honours degree is considered equivalent to a US Masters. Judging by the site's assessment of equivalency for Canadian programs they are making the assumption that the 3-4 yr B.A. General/Ordinary from Canada/England is equivalent to a US 4 yr B.A. and the Canadian/English 4 yr Honours degree is equivalent to a US Masters. Are the Canadian/English B.A. programs just considered more intensive? What is the explanation?

    North

     
  8. PSalmon

    PSalmon New Member

    This is explained in part at bottom of page 7/top of page 8 in BG14. In British system (and South African, etc) the BA is much more focused so that after 3 years the student has equivalent or better depth (though not breadth) as U.S. student after 4 years. So the Honours degree (one year post-BA fulltime study) is perhaps equivalent in depth to MA in U.S.
    Same thing also applies in the sciences. See, for example, discussion in section 9.3 of the current "steelman" draft ACM Computer Science curriculum at http://www.acm.org/sigcse/cc2001/steelman/cs-completing-curriculum.html .
     
  9. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Thanks for that information.

    So in Canada & Britian (SA etc) you get more depth to the degree and in the US more breadth. I suppose there are arguments to be made on both sides of the issue surrounding purpose of education and so on. A couple of people had posted here a while ago two examples of individuals who had attempted English Ph.D. programs (one in Theology & one in mathematics I believe) and were ill prepared compared with their English counterparts.

    Interesting discussion.

    North

     
  10. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I should add in fairness that I think the person who described the math Ph.D. indicated that he thought that someone who graduated from a higher tier school would likely fair better in the English Ph.D. program (which was one of the better schools). The Theology issue had to do with a graduate (M.D.iv) of a relatively new Theology program which was on it's way to accreditation but not there. These type of individual quality issues are probably across the board and could be said in England or South Africa as well. I believe that John ran into someone (a S. African business woman) on his boat trip who made disparaging remarks about Azaliah as far as it's level of education and then it's US expansion and accreditation by DETC (she also made unkind remarks about DETC).

    North

     
  11. PSalmon

    PSalmon New Member

    Azaliah College was established about 10 years ago to provide continuing education for elementary school teachers. It has since expanded to U.S.A. and Europe with a somewhat broader scope. But it's not widely recognized as a university in South Africa. Most people have never heard of it.
     
  12. Caballero Lacaye

    Caballero Lacaye New Member

    Dear PSalmon,

    Thanks for your explanations!

    Best,

    K>A>L>
     
  13. Bill Highsmith

    Bill Highsmith New Member

    Caballerisimo,

    Keep your head down and no surfing for the next few days.

    Bill Highsmith, who is much further north in FL
     
  14. Caballero Lacaye

    Caballero Lacaye New Member


    Dear Bill,

    Right on target! With Michelle approaching South Florida, I am not going to Miami Beach to surf...well...I have never done that, anyway. Still, I will make sure to keep my head down 'cause I will be definitely using my umbrella to protect myself against that nasty Michelle [​IMG]

    Fraternally yours,


    Karlos Alberto Lacaye, who anyway is going to take an "indoor" shower right now.
    [email protected]
     

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