French Newspaper Reprints Muhammad Cartoons

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Discussions' started by dcv, Feb 1, 2006.

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  1. dcv

    dcv New Member

    The story
    Hear, hear! Good job, France Soir! All freedom-loving newspapers should reprint the cartoons. Let those bastards boycott everyone except for themselves.
     
  2. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    Don't exercise your right to be an asshole

    I'm all for freedom of speech and expression, assembly, religion, and the press. I agree with the comment that if we don't believe in freedom of speech for those we despise, we don't believe in it at all.

    But I also think that just because you have the right to be an asshole doesn't mean you should exercise it. I think for example, that France Soir also should have the right to use a swastika or other similar symbol as a logo and plaster it all over their newspaper. But I don't think they should, and similarly they shouldn't go out of their way just to use a sacrilegious image of someone else's revered figure.

    -=Steve=-
     
  3. dcv

    dcv New Member

    I think comparing these cartoons to swastikas and other symbols of hate is being more than just a little dramatic and unfair.
     
  4. JLV

    JLV Active Member

    I think it was perhaps unnecessary if depicting the prophet offends Muslims. What was beyond the line was to require Denmark´s Prime Minister Rasmusen to officially apologize as if the goverment could control the free press. They killed a little over a year ago now Dutch filmmaker Van Gogh for directing a movie which was very critical with Islam. The film was written by a Somalian Muslim women who had to flee her country seeking freedom. He paid for his life for it as he was assasinated and half decapitated in the daytime in downtown Amsterdam. So those drawers and the newspapers want to express probably that they aren´t afraid and will continue expressing their views whether Muslism like it or not. I wonder if Muslim countries will demand as well an official apology from Monsieur Chirac. Will they be boycotted too? That would be hillarious to see.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 1, 2006
  5. eckert16

    eckert16 New Member

    So, if I'm not an Islamic practicioner, then I should follow the Islamic restrictions. If I don't follow the Islamic rules by depicting deities, then I should be stoned, have my head sawed off, blown up, shot [or whatever other form of violence put against my physical body].

    If I am an Islamic practicioner, then I should follow the Islamic restrictions.

    So, is the entire world supposed to bow to the desires of one religion? Hell, make it THE world religion then if it applies universally and the politicos are afraid of touching it for fear of infringing on the rights of non-practicioners.

    Practice your religion as you see fit. But when you try to force it on others...
     
  6. JLV

    JLV Active Member

    Dough, what happens is that there is no reciprocity principle. You can build a mosque with Saudi money in Munich or Berlin, Madrid or Helsinki, but you CANNOT build a church/synagogue or even proselytize in those Muslims countries. Most likely you will get decapitated, or, if you’re lucky you will spend the rest of your life in those decrepit, inhumane prisons. Muslims feel entitle to use our democracies when it suits them, but they don’t want to accept the responsibilities that go with it.

    Why would it be more offensive to publish those cartoons than to burn and desecrate a flag, be it in this case the Danish but very often the American? Those Muslim groups in Arabia, Palestine, Syria, etc,... have threatened to destroy and boycott all Danish interests or *nationals* they encounter in their way..... Geez, man, I guess I have to be hopeful no newspaper in my country publishes those silly caricatures (they have already done it, BTW). Think about it. Everyone can insult or criticize Christians, Protestants, the Pope, Mother Teresa, Buddha or the Jews as much as one wants. No problem. Most people don´t really pay attention. When it comes to Islam, a religion and a lifestyle anchored in 710 AD, no one has the *balls* to criticize it in public. Those who did are either dead or have been issued a fatwua. Funny thing is that they can afford to kill us by using our taxes money as the EU generously subsidizes those groups.

    You know what? It is great that many European papers have published those drawings of Muhammad. We are a single people, and an attack to the Danish’s rights is an attack to all Europeans. We cannot allow Muslims to restrict our freedoms, and as Orson said elsewhere, that includes our blasphemy rights. We have been silent for such a long, long time.
     
  7. JLV

    JLV Active Member

    Those cartoons were published in September. Why do they bring it up now? Why now exactly? Well, it is obvious. Iran has been reported to the Security Council of the UN where economic adn MILITARY sanctions can legally be imposed for the nuclear wepaons they are trying to develop. This "crisis" has been designed by Damascus and by Teheran to scare Europeans off. Guess what. They were succesful, if they push a little further, the EU will break into tears. What a bunch of cowards. Soon they will tell us of a surah that "explictly" says that the Qur´an promotes nuclear weapons for the sons of Ishmail, and if we don´t agree we are blasphemous infidels. A mulah will tell us soon. Mark my words. Only Rice has raised her voice. If we had just one leader like that over here.......
     
  8. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    I know who my enemy is

    I am a lifelong critic of the current view that "no culture is superior to any other culture, just different" and "tolerance is always appropriate." I see what happens when the President of a major Muslim (not even Arab) state calls for the elimination of Israel and the killing of every Jew. Silence.

    I KNOW who my enemy is because he tells me so every day. Sure, there are many Muslims in every country who do not seek my death and the deaths of my family, but where ARE they? The American Muslim community was just as silent as the Muslim states and with NO excuse for their immoral silence.

    A Nazi is a Nazi and silence is tacit support.

    So I derive a certain, bitter satisfaction from these events; maybe France and Denmark and Norway will at last be forced to see exactly what twenty-first century Islam really IS.
     
  9. geckoz

    geckoz New Member

    The good questions are: why now and why don't we hear from the peaceful and sane muslims?

    Why now? I am not sure, and I wonder who fanned the embers and for what exact political objective.

    Why don't we hear from the majority of muslims? Because violence is always better at selling newspapers and getting TV audiences.

    Quiet, reasoned discussion does not sell.

    There is an old saying, "the door that squeaks gets the oil".

    It is all rather irrational. But that is just another sign that as much as we humans like to say that we are rational beings, we are not that. We never have been and we never will be.

    Maybe I am too pessimistic, but I hold little faith for ever living in peace. Sibling rivalry is clearly very vicious and destructive.
     
  10. Kaboom

    Kaboom New Member

    Re: I know who my enemy is

     
  11. Kaboom

    Kaboom New Member

    Re: I know who my enemy is

    Hey guys,

    I am an American Muslim, and I don't wish to see the destruction of the Jewish people. I desire world peace. I know of many Muslims who hold my opinion, and who speak up. Perhaps the media is not focused on us. I believe that the Israeli State is just as guilty as the Palestian Authority in not finding a long and lasting solution. The other issue is that their are a lot of folks out there (of all religions) who believes that God has only blessed their particular group of people and everyone else doesn't matter. I look at Christian T.V, and I have seen misleading statements about Islam from the likes of Pat Roberts and Jerry Farwell to name a few. I have also heard Jewish talk show host Michael Savage, speak the untruth about Islam. We should not point the finger at Muslims or American Muslims ,and ask way aren't you standing up, when Muslims are being verbally attacked here in America. Why are so many silent.

    My point is this; we live in 21st century. The crusades and all the other religious wars were centuries ago. So, why my beloved Jewish, Christian and Muslim brothers are we killing each other with our tongues.

    Many people know very little about their American Muslim neighbors, who are police officers, judges, teachers and business people. Its time that we really get to know and respect each other.



     
  12. Migara

    Migara member

    my question is what if cartoons of Jesus were to publish in some form of insulting manner, would catholics around world make the same protests, burn buildings, etc ,etc?

    I am a roman catholic, i would certainly will not up and arm about it, but in my heart of hearts i would feel sad, would you?

    i see many form cartoons that insults the heads of governments, just because its insulting, does it mean that heads of governments would kill the cartoonist?

    I think muslims need to take a good look at themselves. Sadly since muslim youths have nothing else to they go up and arms.

    Migara
     
  13. JLV

    JLV Active Member

    Re: Re: I know who my enemy is

    I believe you. I am sure many cops, politicians, judges etc in the US are Muslims. They have their mosques, and places to gather and pray, and enjoy full freedom to proselytize as much as they wish, and they aren´t discriminated against for being a Muslim. I am sure you´re not even asked about your religious views prior to be hired, to seek admisions in schools or to receive health care. Do you know by chance if it happens the same in Islamic coutries? Is there any reciprocity in Muslim republics? I am not even requesting to update your religion anchored in the Middle Ages to this century, just asking for a little quid pro quo. It could be a good start, don´t you think?
     
  14. davidhume

    davidhume New Member

    For those 'sane and peaceful' muslims who live in muslim countries; they do not have the freedom to express what they really feel about such issues.

    Those living in democratic countries don't think the issue warrants a comment!
     
  15. Kaboom

    Kaboom New Member

    Re: Re: Re: I know who my enemy is

    Perhaps you meant well with your comment of:

    "I am not even requesting to update your religion anchored in the Middle Ages to this century."

    You have generalized my faith. Once again, the western world has interpreted current events as universal. The Arab world is not the whole Muslim world. And my comment is not meant to speak negative of Middle Eastern Muslims., but what we are really looking at is a political issue. The Muslim world is diverse and dynamic. The media is only showing you one side. I would suggest that you look at nations like Turkey, Tunisia and Senegal as just a few models. And, look at Islamic groups like the Sufi movements, Ismailis, Ibadhis, African-American Muslims (Under W.D. Mohammed), Disciples of the reformist Muhammed Abdu and the many, many, many other facets in Islam. I do not have a middle age faith. My religion, my faith is as modern and relevent as yours in today's world. I do not ride a camel, I drive a car, my wife drives a car. We both work, share in the chores. I vote, pay taxes and served in the American military. I love my country and celebrate the 4th of July like many other Muslims.

    Peace & Kaboom

    I have travelled and mingled with Muslims in Africa, the Middle East and Europe. From my observation, many Europeans (except the Brits) claim to be liberal, but they say one thing, and in their hearts exist another (once again except the Brits), when it comes to Muslims. Thank God I live in America.

     
  16. Kaboom

    Kaboom New Member

    David I was an Islamic Chaplain part-time. I served on the board as President of a chaplins association. From my experience, Christian and Jewish organizations reached out in fellowship, but the media ignored everything we had to say against events like 9/11, and other terrorist events. Our head Imam, joined a Jewish sponsored rally one year, which called for peace in the holy lands, and once again the media ignored us. Muslims aren't silent as you might think, just some of us are not getting the press.

     
  17. JLV

    JLV Active Member

    Re: Re: Re: Re: I know who my enemy is

    Yeah, thank god you do.

    When I referred to the Islam as a religion anchored in the Middle Ages I didn’t mean bad or well. I was merely pointing out a fact that had nothing to do with intentions. For instance, just to mention only the most obvious example, fifty percent of Muslims are born having fewer rights. Women are considered inferior to men. Women are mutilated and their clitoris removed. The imam of Fuengirola (Spain) wrote a book on interpreting the Qur ´an that explains how to beat women, and how to hide bruises and scars to defeat police action. Or this other imam here in Rotterdam that considers homosexuality a disease that must be prevented from spreading. He had the entire gay community hidden in their homes terrified. If they do that here, imagine what they do at home. We all know of polygamy (covered slavery), and arranged (forced) marriages for financial profit, we all know of honor killings that still take place today as we speak. It iswell known what happens to non believers rights in Muslim countries, not to speak of atheists. There are still countries where the sharia is still applied. Just for the sakes of argument, Turkey is a secular nominal democracy. Its secularism is kept by a zealous Army which is in charge of Turkish Kemalist heritage. The Army had to intervene several times only in the last years to keep Muslim fundamentalism at bay and kick it out of government. An imposed democracy is not really a democracy, and hardly can be considered an example or a model. In fact, Prime Minister Erdogan was incarcerated few years ago for inciting to religious hatred. I am sure you live Islam in a more moderated fashion, but you’ll have to agree with me that people who live their Islamic faith like you do, compared with the rest, are an insignificant, mostly irrelevant minority within the umma (the Muslim community). And if you ask me, there is now way to tell if it is a sincere or imposed conduct since all mentioned above is clearly illegal in the States. Wouldn´t you think that all this has little to do with 21st century liberal democracy and a lot more with Medieval customs? It is up to you, the most moderate Muslims, to promote a change of course because if you don´t, we´ll be heading to a clash of civilizations like Harvard Professor Samuel Huntington predicted.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 10, 2006
  18. JLV

    JLV Active Member

    It turns out that the Danes are holding the Presidency at the UN Security Council where the battle for Iran’s building of nuclear weapons will be discussed. I think everything begins to make sense now. This is an orchestrated campaign by Tehran to try to get away with the illegal fabrication of WMD. Imagine the pressure on the Danes, a small country with no specific weight in world affairs, if they have to promote the imposition of economic or military penalties to Iran..... The worst mistake the West can make is to underestimate these people.
     
  19. JLV

    JLV Active Member

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