dissertations and editing

Has anyone paid an editor or proofreader to go over their dissertation? If so, how much did they charge per page?

Rhonda

 

$2.50 per page.

If you need a referral, PM me.

 

Please forgive me if my ignorance offends anyone (anyone besides me that is), but is the employment of an editor for a doctoral dissertation generally acceptable? As a fairly recent graduate student, I have never had an assignment where anything but my own work would be acceptable. Is a dissertation considered something more of the "real world" (as opposed to the academic world) where this would be considered ethical or, is the ability of the writer not really measured but rather the quality of the research?

Just curious.

 

It's not uncommon at all. It wasn't that long ago that the average Ph.D. candidate couldn't type. An experienced dissertation typist also helped edit the dissertation.

Also, consider the plight of candidates that speak Engilish as a second language. While they may know more than anyone in the world about their dissertation topic, they often have difficulty expressing their knowledge in "perfect" English. Many such individuals hire editors to help with the finer points of English expression and grammar.

 

Both. Although here at the University of South Florida it is fairly common, particularly with foreign doctoral students (such as myself). In the education doctoral program there were a couple of Chinese doctoral students who were incredibly bright but struggled with communicating their thoughts in perfect English.

A dissertation editor around campus that I know charges over $150 an hour to read your work and make recommendations to improve the word flow. He told me that most students already bring most of their work already completed and need a final revision from a professional to make sure that everything is perfect.

Now hiring an editor to do all the grunt work and writing for you (or telling you what to say and how to do it word for word) is highly unethical, but fortunately I've never heard of that happening around here.


-S

 

It is quite common- or at least more than you would think. Usually schools have extensions to the standards (e.g. extensions to APA format) that needs to be considered. Also, committees if not the school) want grammar, spelling, etc. as perfect as possible, as their name is going on the signature page. When I did my dissertation, I didn't use an editor, but I did drive myself a bit bonkers trying to resolve all the different format extensions.

Another thing that may be surprising- at least it was for me when I first heard of it. A number of doctoral candidates, especially in the social sciences, do not do their own number crunching. They will usually employ a statistician (perhaps someone from the math department or an outside consultant). However, they ARE required to know what their numbers mean, understand the tests performed and why, and be able to interpret the results. At a Turkey Day dinner, the host told me about a doctoral candidate that went through her defense, but bombed because she could not sufficiently explain her results.

 

JOAnnP38: "Please forgive me if my ignorance offends anyone (anyone besides me that is), but is the employment of an editor for a doctoral dissertation generally acceptable? As a fairly recent graduate student, I have never had an assignment where anything but my own work would be acceptable. Is a dissertation considered something more of the "real world" (as opposed to the academic world) where this would be considered ethical or, is the ability of the writer not really measured but rather the quality of the research?"


Cehi: The purpose of editing is to have another eye find the grammartical errors that your eyes may have missed regarding what you have written. The reality is that it is not uncommon for people to ignore their own errors. An unbiased proofreader should be able to identify these errors. At the same time, it is remotely possible that few dissertation writers would not make grammartical errors, even though I find it impossible. Thank you.

 

Foobar: "Also, consider the plight of candidates that speak Engilish as a second language. While they may know more than anyone in the world about their dissertation topic, they often have difficulty expressing their knowledge in "perfect" English. Many such individuals hire editors to help with the finer points of English expression and grammar."


Cehi: While your comments may be true, making grammartical errors are not limited to these type of students. There are many indigeneous students that also fall into this population group. They speak english the way they know it, but are very horrible in the way they write it. My friend, making grammartical errors cut across many lines. Whether english is your primary or secondary language, when you write a dissertation, you are almost required to have your dissertation proofread.

I have to show evidence (a receipt) that I had my dissertation proofread, even though my committee chairperson spent some time reading it. The bottom line is that people spend these monies for proofreading, then, after printing, you still see some typos here and there. Nothing is full proof, but it makes sense to have an outsider proofread a dissertation. Thank you.

 

philosophicalme: "Has anyone paid an editor or proofreader to go over their dissertation? If so, how much did they charge per page?"



Cehi: Yes, I have done this before. At that time, it cost me $1.00 per page. Don't be surprised to pay about $2.00 or more nowadays. Thank you.

 

It would make sense to have someone else read it through so your advisors aren't banding their heads trying to figure out what you wrote, and they can concentrate on the contents.

My proof readers where more than happy to point out different ways in which to make a statement, and the advisor then concentrated on the reading of the content.

There is a difference though, in having someone proof it for you and paying someone to write it for you.

 

I does sound like a fertile gray area though.

 

Editors are not subject matter experts. One editor might proofread dissertations from several fields of study such physics, economics, engineering, biology, business, history, computer science, political science, etc. Gray areas (fertile or barren) are for the most part nonexistent.

Thanks.

 

You might try http://www.typofinders.com

 

Earlier posters on this topic made it sound like editors were often used by PhD students who have very meager English skills. Regardless of the quality of research, having someone re-structure or re-write portions of a dissertation seems borderline to me. Are you saying that you don't believe this is borderline or that this doesn't happen?

BTW, it doesn't take a subject expert to write extensively about a subject that they only have a small amount of understanding. I pass over notes to technical writers at my company all the time. Using these notes they end up creating specifications or manuals often 100s of pages long. In such cases I end up being their editor to make sure they don't stray too far from the truth. If someone were to do the same thing with a dissertation, would that be out-of-bounds? I suspect so, but I may be confused as what is expected of an editor versus a proof-reader. Proof-reading seems perfectly reasonable, but aggressive editing doesn't (at least to me.) However, I thought earlier posters seemed to indicate that either was okay.

 

Okay, after rereading what I just wrote, I didn't mean to imply that what Sage Software's technical writers produce from my notes is even close to the indepth nature of dissertations; however, I might see where someone might sketch out the background portion of the of the dissertation along with all of their notes and have someone else write it. For instance, assume for a moment that I could actually write (I know that's a stretch.) I'm pretty certain that with my background and for a HUGE fee I could work with with a PhD student and write most if not all of the dissertation. I'm sure that some enterprising scoundrel has thought of that. Or, am I mischaracterizing this? Would that person (me in my example) really be a scoundrel? After all, its the PhD student's research, just my words. Would this be an out-and-out violation of what's expected, a gray area, or is it perfectly acceptable?

 

The typical editor would have no clue about the subject matter of the dissertation. If the dissertation is a true contribution to the candidate's field, he/she should know more about the topic than anyone, including his committee and advisor when the dissertation is finished. I can't see an editor with sufficient subject knowledge to contribute to the actual content of the dissertation.

A dissertation editor should not be working from notes. There should be a draft that the editor is cleaning up. This would be substantially different from the situation with the technical manual that you describe. If a "restructuring" was recommended by the editor, he/she should be asking for another draft from the candidate or working with the candidate looking over his/her shoulder.

 

That sounds perfectly reasonable to me. I suppose I've heard of books (specifically auto-biographies) where in truth they weren't that auto. In this case the editor is just telling the student what's not right, perhaps making some suggestions and the PhD candidate tries again.

 

Disregarding meager English skills for the moment, let's assume someone did have someone write the bulk, or some major parts, of the dissertation body from notes. When the candidate goes to defend, they would need to read/reread the work several times to know what's in the work. I don't know about anyone else's dissertation, but I would fall asleep while writing mine.

On a more serious note, just having a high level knowledge of your research is not enough. Committees, faculty, and others in the room during the defense (it can be an open process) may ask questions, calculated or not, that could show the candidate in less than favorable light. I sat in on two defenses the day I defended, and one fo the faculty members took exception to several items in the candidate's work, which the candidate had difficulty answering (and I know he did his own writing). It caused him to have a conditional pass, meaning he had to rewrite/clarify portions of his work. Fortunately, he didn't have to re-defend.

 

Hi JoAnn,

an editor restructures a dissertation that he/she is editing, this will tantamount to academic dishonesty. JoAnn, you have to understand how the dissertation process works. You cannot restructure (it depends on what you mean by restructuring) your dissertation without any kind of approval by your advisor and/or your committee. You can't just alter the focus of your dissertation whenever you feel like doing so. Students do not do restructure their dissertations spontaneously. Your adviser and your committee must be kept in the loop.

Like I stated in my earlier post, a proofreader who knows nothing about chemistry cannot add or subtract a technical idea to a chemistry dissertation. Doctoral students are actually advised to have someone proofread their works. No dissertation advisor would want to server as your proofreader. Note that we are only talking about proofreading service.

Whereas proofreaders might not be of much help when a student is conducting dissertation research or interpreting the results of the research, the same thing can’t be said about subject matter experts. What I consider as cheating or academic dishonesty is the use of experts to write your research methodology, conduct your research, interpret the results, report the results, and report your conclusion. If the introduction/problem statement section and review of the literature were also outsourced, it means that you are charlatan.

Thanks.

 

I think I know what you're getting at, Ike, but I'm not quite sure. In the publication process, what a proofreader does is read proof: i.e. compares two versions of a text to see that they agree: e.g. the proof sheets from the printer with a computer printout of the clean ms.

Someone who fixes comma splices and spelling errors is not a proofreader but an editor. The term"editor," however, has a huge range of reference. At one end you have Maxwell Perkins turning Thomas Wolfe's two-foot tall ms into Look Homeward Angel. At the other, the comma splice checker. So in common parlance, when people say "proofreader," they often mean something like "an editor who fixes the ms but doesn't change it," or "restructure it" in your terms, which avoid the contradiction.

The difficulty in making a hard-and-fast distinction, though, is that this broad editing spectrum is a continuum. Even copy editors, who go over mss just before they go to press (and do lots of other things, too), may distinguish between "light," "medium," and "heavy" edits, and charge accordingly.

When does repair become restructuring? It's hard for me to say, though I'm sure there are abundant hard and fast criteria. Does improving the fluency or coherence of a text count? At what level? Striking out a repetition? Combining sentences and cutting redundancy? Moving sentences around in a paragraph? Putting one paragraph ahead of, instead of after, another? Inserting a transitional adverb? Finding le mot juste to replace an awkward circumlocution? Suggesting a more perspicuous notation?

I dunno. I suppose it comes down to being clear beforehand about what work is the student's and what the editor's, and being honest about it afterward.

I'm real interested in what the various criteria are, though.