Send the ACLU a Christmas Card

This is an issue that comes close to my heart, Bill, and I am happy that you brought it up. (Happy not as "overjoyed" but "glad".)

My area of expertise is parsing and pattern matching, which includes application in data mining, and thus this issue touches upon me specifically, and has been something that I have had to deal with from an ethical and professional level, since scientists are asked by their various professional codes of ethics to avoid research that could harm the greater good.

Several years back, I was interviewed for a philosophy paper by a student at TUI. She asked me the following question: "Do you feel that there are any aspects of science and technology that are threatening to you personally, to society, or to the nature of mankind?"

My answer at the time, which has not since changed, was as follows:

The parsing technology I invented has, because it allows for efficient Type 1 (context-sensitive) parsing, great potential for use in genetic research (possibly, one can dream, to find cures for retrovirii, and such like). It could also be used to quickly filter through private emails in some Orwellian Supercomputer.

Adjustments to the American Constitution might be seen to have the same "double-edged" quality. They might preserve security -- true -- but they might also harm society's soul at a meta-level.

The next 50 years promise mankind a great deal of ethical and philosophical exploration as science and human nature fight it out. We can only hope that level heads prevail -- and we can only hope that voices of dissent in the wilderness (such as the ACLU) are not ignored. Such organizations exist to serve a real need, regardless of whether or not we perceive a personal benefit from that need in our present state.

Good luck to mankind, I say. We'll need it.

 

Re: Re: Not true...

Happens all the time read the papers.

http://www.naco.org/CountyNewsTemplate.cfm?template=/ContentManagement/ContentDisplay.cfm&ContentID=12847

 

Re: Re: Re: Not true...

To me that appears to be a problem with separation of church and state. You really think that the county would have been able to win its case?

I understand better what you meant though and agree with your assessment that it happens all the time. My view is that it demonstrates how easily it is for religious oriented representations to creep into government sanctioned areas that should be kept separate from religon.

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Not true...

Yes I do, there have been significant decisons concerning historical context of religious symbols in public places. Again, the article said they threatened over the cross and disregarded the rosary beads. Our money has "in god we trust" on it. Lots of examples.

Other issues, the ACLU has been after the BSA for years. They threaten lawsuit whenever an organization accomodates the BSA so some communities go overboard and ban them altogether just to protect themselves from the ACLU. Later, after much outcry from the community the decision is often reversed but it is another example.

Sorry, the ACLU is by no means a benign defender of our liberties. It is an organization that is manned by people and as such has all the flaws that can come with people and their biases.

Of course, since it meets your idea of how our country should be you won't see anything wrong with them....

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Not true...

But not quite like the BSA and it's biases.

 

Can't stand the ACLU. At all.
But this card trick is repulsive and stupid.
What will the cards say: "peace on earth screw you to men"?
Not my idea of Christmas. At all.

 

Is BSA the Boy Scouts of America?

Either that or the Business Software Alliance.

 

Farm boys and long hair

Oh come on now Uncle! The ACLU kept me, and a bunch of other long-haired Norwegian farm boys from central Wisconsin, in High School in the late 60s when we all decided to grow our hair out over our shirt collars! Surely this act of righteousness on their part alone will cause you to modify your stance just a bit?

 

Yes, the Scouts, who blatantly discriminate against gays and lesbians. (I thought Scouting was about many things, sex not being one of them!) But they use many public accommodations, receive public support, and might be tax-exempt?

As a private organization, I don't care against whom they dscriminate--provided they don't receive public funds, don't receive access to public venues, cannot receive tax-deductible charitable contributions, and have their revenues taxed.

As a case in point, I'm against the discriminitory practices of the Augusta National Golf Club ("The Masters"). But they pay their taxes, don't take tax-deductible contributions, etc. The only argument against them is that their golf tournament--open to the public and telecast around the word, might create an equal access situation, but they don't discriminate against tournament attendees (women are allowed on the grounds).

The Boy Scouts should be treated like a business, or a taxed private club. Then I don't care who they keep out, as long as they don't violate civil rights laws.

 

Hey Carl,

Please tell us how the Republicans have taken away your personal right to life, your personal liberty, and your personal pursuit of happiness.

Wonder what rights Bill Clinton took away from Juanita Broderick and Paula Jones?

P.S. You sneaky devil. You got me talking politics on another board.

 

Believe it or not, I used to be a card-carrying member of the ACLU back in the '80's.

They are not the same organization they were back then. They have moved from classical liberalism to radical liberalism.

 

Maybe it is because they don't want their kids exposed to perverted sexual behavior? What horrible people they must be!!

 

Would exposing them to non-perverted sexual behavior (whatever that is) be okay? Of course not. Such things would be intolerable from heterosexuals, too.

I wouldn't want my kids led by a Scout leader who made any kind of sex an issue.

This is just a ruse to keep out a group of people you hate. Nothing more.

Groups like these--like religious groups who preach intolerance and hate--are certainly entitled to congregate privately. But they should not enjoy tax advantages and use of public facilities to breed their disgusting bigotry. And I wouldn't want my kids exposed to that, for such hate is certainly harmful.

 

What a load of garbage...

So in your opinion no organization that is tax exempt should have access to government facilities? Heck we built a multi million dollar gay and lesbian social center in Illinois with public funds. Then they denied non G&L groups access. Real inclusive weren't they. I bet that you have no problem with groups that meet your agenda having these same priviledges. Personally, I don't care what anyones orientation is, but I hate it when people act like the issue is all one sided.

What public support does BSA receive? None where I come from, period. Oh, and just so you know, you can be gay and be a scout. It is leadership roles where they are barred and only then if you are open about it. Kind of like the military you were a member of at one time. They do also require a belief in God, any god, just so long as it is one. Reliigions of all types are tax exempt even ones which are far more restrictive than the BSA.

Just so you know, it is not illegal for tax exempt organization or the BSA to use public facilities....

 

Rich,
I don't hate gays or lesbians. In fact, I love them. I just disagree with their sexual behavior, the same as I disagree with any type of immoral sexual behavior.

BLD

 

Re: What a load of garbage...

No, it isn't. But ones that preach such hate towards others should be treated as public accommodations and be required to organize privately and pay taxes. I feel the BSA should have the exact same access and priviliges as the KKK.

 

It's absurd, dishonest, intolerant, rude, unfair, slanderous, and bigoted to say anyone who disagrees with homosexual behavior hates homosexuals.

You're just as narrow-minded as those you accuse and projecting your own uncivil and uncultured traits upon others!

 

Since when is opposition to immoral behavior bigotry? To even put that in the same category is a slap in the face to every minority who has faced real bigotry in their lives.

Is it also bigoty to be against polygamy?

BLD

 

Can we start calling you "Gay Lovin' BLD" in our future posts then?

 

Sure! That would be great!

BLD