Instructors who won't give an "A"

It seems to me perfectly reasonable to ask your instructor for examples of A work on past papers, so that you can emulate them in the future. One advantage of on-line DL is that the instructor can readily get permission from A students (should any exist) to share their work as models.

I've found that often students may have utterly unrealistic impressions of the relative quality of their own work: With respect to their own work, as well as in general, weak students may have underdeveloped critical faculties, and strong students may have hypertrophied ones. It helps both if they know where they stand.

It also seems to me fair to expect an instructor who invokes the "wow" factor to explain its criteria. It may well be that your instructor does have a mental model of an A paper that you could aspire to, or might find beyond your reach. But it does not seem like good pedagogy to keep it a secret or rely on the "know-it-when-I-see-it" criterion.

 

In my IU MBA program only 10-15% of the class can get an A, and 25-35% an A-. The curves are adjusted to accommodate this and as a result, you can end up with a 93.75% (as I did in my Quantitative Analysis class) and yield an A-. I was .25% short of an A.

Am I angry or disappointed about it? Not at all. In fact, what it does show to me is that A grades are reserved for only the best students - there is no grade inflation here where anyone who turns up and turns in assignments can earn an A. Had I scored a bit better on a homework assignment or exam I would have earned my A - but as I didn't, I can't complain about it.

For B grades (B-, B, B+, or high pass) there is no "quota", so those who fall outside of the A/A- threshold will get a grade that maps to their achievement. For C (bare pass) or lower grades, this indicates that the student isn't at the level expected for grad school.

For the competitive person who puts in a real effort, this approach works rather well. For the person who believes that "I paid my money, now give me my high GPA" they will be sorely disappointed.

Cheers,
Mark

 

Just got back to read some more and catch up. I’d like to address some comments from postings made after mine.

For mbaonline (Ann): MLA style is used for English and Humanities. APA style is used mostly for the social sciences, scientific documents and technical communications. I teach English (MLA) and technology (APA). In all my classes, grad and undergrad, I spend the first two weeks (more sometimes for undergrad) teaching writing and documentation alongside teaching the content. I provide writing resources, mini-lessons, and individualized corrections on all papers. After that, for a few weeks I mark but do not correct errors. From that point on, I don’t mark or correct errors but simply note that there are errors. As for the MLA and APA Manuals – if the colleges require them for the courses I teach, then the students get them (and most do require that). Even so, I have provided lots of web resources that are just as good as the manuals (and lots easier to navigate and find stuff!!).

For jo3919: You have a good point about business writing (which I also teach on occasion). The “wow” factor in that relates to writing style and content, as well as format. The expectation is that business writing will be flawless – it doesn’t make a good impression at all if there are errors, even one or two minor errors. Perfection is the goal in any business or professional writing.

For fortiterinre (Steve): Never have I had a class in which everyone earned an A on any one assignment. I’ve had plenty of classes in which the majority have earned A’s. My expectations are realistic and achievable for everyone who wants to put forth the time and effort required to learn how to do the work required in the course content. Not everyone wants to do that so I've never had all A's. And there is no “wowing” without meeting the rubric criteria for an A – that “wow” factor is included in the assessment criteria for the A grade. A bland paper with little style or interest in no way meets the A criteria as detailed in the rubric.

For 3$bill (Bill): You mentioned asking for examples of A work on assignments. I also provide exemplars for most assignments. In every class I teach, when I receive one of those “wow” papers, I always ask permission from the student to use the paper as an exemplar in future classes. I’ve never been refused permission I remove the name and add the paper to my arsenal of A quality work for future students.

To finish up this posting, I have to say that I have seen too many profs who are really into power tripping. Then there are the ones who know their subject matter but simply have no clue about effective instruction or realistic assessment of learning. I teach mostly adult students (there are a few traditional age college students but not many) in undergrad business, writing, and English classes and I also teach in two masters degree programs. In order to effectively teach anyone anything, I need to be approachable if there are questions and I need to provide excellent content, explanations and lessons, examples, learning objectives, and assessment criteria. I get no satisfaction from putting low grades on students’ work. On the other hand, I find it very rewarding when the majority of my students in a class receive A’s and B’s. For me, that means I’m doing my job right with effective instruction, high yet realistic expectations, and assessment criteria that correlate well with instruction and expectations.

 

If anything I'd say this thread shows how subjective grading can be. So yes it can be unfair.

 

I think you've writtten a rubric for A teaching, Teachtech. I'm proud to be your colleague.

 

Thank you, Bill -- you made my day

I also develop and teach online faculty training. I have no idea how the instructors in my online training courses teach in a traditional setting but we all know online teaching is very different. My faculty training is a bit different than what most institutions mandate for new online faculty in that I do not focus heavily on the technology of the CMS (whichever one is being used). I spend the majority of the four week training on effective instructional and assessment methodology. Many of these new online faculty say they are taking these new strategies back to their traditional classes, too. I've always found it interesting that traditional instruction does not transfer well at all to the online format. However, online instructional methods transfer quite effectively into the traditional classroom.

TeachTech
aka Lee in VA

 

I give "A"s on papers if the student

Reads the assignment requirements and addresses them specifically in the paper
Uses proper grammar, punctuation and spelling
Uses a reasonable facsimile of APA
Leaves out personal opinion, and first and second person references.
Refers to the work of others in the assignment.

 

As you say, this is a quota system based on a strict bell curve, rather than the "loose" bell curve I advocate, although I like this one too. By a "loose curve" I mean a curve that anticipates that in a typical grad school class, maybe 80% will be in the A or B category. I actually love "pluses" and "minuses," because I think they allow a kinder, gentler system where almost everyone gets the grade they "need," but also the grade they "deserve."

I still think it's impossible to have a system where "only the wows get A's" and have a majority of "wows" in that class; the "wow" is clearly de-valued when this happens, and it's a contradictory system. "Wow" is not the standard if 65% of the class gets a full A.

I think in most grad classes you have the bulk of students in a broad middle of A's and B's (where the + or - could really mean something) and the two end curves of "C and lower" and "true wows/publishable work." In some grad classes, especially with adult learners, people take what I call the "paycheck" attitude--"I did the work, give me my A." I also think systems that emphasize "choosing" your grade through work encourage this. Grad school should ideally be about harmonizing your personal knowledge base and talents with the topics of your research, which should reflect this harmony. Many A students who do all the required work but show little artistry or aptitude in creating this personal harmony deserve B's in my book, but they usually find systems that let them opt in to an undeserved A.

 

bad grading

I've had Prof. that gives u A- for scoring 97% on tests (mind u there aren't any points for class participation). Just to give u an idea of what happened to my Management grade today: my friend wrote a lousy research paper and she only wrote 50% in the length of pages demanded; while I spent months as researching a management topic and still scored lower than her - What gives. My other literature prof. never explains what is required in her research papers and I believe she never fully reads my paper. These might be isolated cases but it shows how arbitrary grading can be.

 

I'm sorry, Steve, but I can't see the connection between students getting the grades they earn and norm-referenced grading.

It seems to me, rather, that, given the small size of most graduate classes, norm-referenced grading is more, rather than less, prone to awarding unearned grades than criterion-referenced grading.

Also, in a norm-referenced class, the only answer to the question, "What do I have to do to earn an A in this course?" is "Do better than everyone who gets a B." In a criterion-referenced class, the answer should have pedagogical value.

But I've looked at it this way a long time. I could very well be missing something I should know about.

It sounds to me as if you are very concerned about giving students grades that accurately reflect their actual accomplishments. I'm curious how lashing yourself--tightly or loosely--to a normal distribution helps you do this. It seems superfluous to me, but so do most things I don't do ;-)

Bill

 

I agree that in a small class the curve has less and less meaning. I was thinking of classes with 30+ students, which might be gigantic for many programs. But if 18 of the 30 are A's, they clearly aren't "wows." If there are only 5 students total in a seminar, there is virtually no curve possible, and if they all earned A's I think it was a great seminar.

 

Grading

Hey Guys,
I need some advice about contesting a grade on a Literature course. I have spent nearly all this semester working my "arse" off on this class. I know that hard-work doesn't guarantee superior grade but I really believe this Professor doesn't know what she's doing. I submitted 12 papers on time, participated greatly in class and was on-time in every session. Now let me describe this woman: She's always late to teach us, she only teaches for less than an hour when the class should last for a whole 2.5 hours. And she cancelled the last three classes because of other committments. She only graded 3/12 of our papers (my grades being A, A-, B+) and she always offered an excuse when we asked for the rest of our papers. This woman comes late to class, sits at her desk and just lets a chatty classmate dominate the class discussions with her rants not pertaining to Literature. My final graded that she posted is a lousy B. This is just a shock because I usually get A's for my other English courses - without this extra effort. Believe me when I say that I tried so hard and really don't know if I should just accept this grade. Thanks for reading my post and feel free to offer any comments.

 

If I were in your position, I would not "just" accept the grade particularly because of the poor teaching habits this instructor has put forth. Was the grade accompanied with an explanation of the shortcomings? If not, I would request it. It is only from this feedback that you can analyze her grading rationale. If her rationale is lacking in substance then I would prepare a counter-argument in an effort to appeal this grade.

Just my 2 cents...

 

Grading

Thanks Susanna:

The first 3 papers that she graded were the most complex of all that i had to write.
1st paper - A ( she commented that it was "indept, complete analysis)
2nd paper - A- ( she just stated "well-done")
3rd paper - B+ ( she stated " much developed essay", but claimed that I was " not clear enough in stating your thesis") These 2 comments seemed to me very conflicting. i wanted to ask her what she meant but I just accepted that B+ "with a grain of salt".

After that B, I made it my utmost priority to write the best essays I could ever produce. On our midterm exams - she gave us 50 essay questions based on 3 long stories ( hamlet, Faukner and Poe) to answer in JUST 45 minutes because she couldn't stay as she had to go "out". After the class complained, she claimed that this midterm was an "experiment" and she would take "time" into consideration when grading. She has 9 papers since October to grade but she keeps saying that she's just not finished.


My tuition and fees is $1850 and felt that the time and money invested was a complete waste.

I'm always early to class and I try my best to show her my willingness to learn by gainfully contributing to class discussions (which always never relate to literature - "feminist issues" which I confess that I'm not too knowledgeable about.) The course isn't gender based but she makes it out to be. 50 % of the class is men and we all feel leftout.

 

Why has no one gone to the Dean about this? I just have to wonder how and why you've put up with it this long. You have two choices: accept the B for your final grade or take a written complaint over her head. And next time, don't wait till the class is over to do something about an ineffective instructor. There is absolutely no excuse for not getting ALL papers back ON TIME with comments justifying the grade.

 

Go to the Dean; this is a bigger issue than subjective grading. I am always surprised at how much sway individual instructors sometimes have in terms of cancelling or shortening sessions, because this is definitely an accreditation issue.

 

True, but there are two issues: getting a fair grade and blowing the whistle on a less-than-competent teacher, two procedures, two independent outcomes.

It seems to me a good idea to keep them hermetically sealed off from one another. Bringing up the competence issue when pursuing the grade change could be construed as a threat; bringing up the grade issue in the competency complaint could suggest a motive.

 

Grading

Thanks everyone for taking the time to suggest ways that might solve my problem.

I've taken the first step in e-mailing the assistant dean, detailing my grievance and asking her if she can contact this instructor and have her mail my 9 other papers to me. Hopefully I will get my papers and decide whether or not to contest this grade.
Once again thanks for the advice.

 

"Almost guaranteed an A?" You'd think so! wrongly.

I once joined a class after the second week (because a medical problem kept me from enrolling earlier) - this took the professor's permission, which was granted. The format had quizes every other week throughout the term - no makeups allowed. I averaged A-minus at the end, but because I missed that first quiz in the second week BEFORE I enrolled was awarded only a B. (No plus or minus in final grades there.)

I appealed this injustice (because I couldn't have taken the first quiz, why was I still held responsible for its "result"?) to the Chair of the department, and got complaints from the course's prof for going through channels: he didn't like the heat my appeal caused him. A department committee later in the next semester decided in the prof's favor. I decided not to appeal it to the Dean because the process showed my voice wasn't going to be heard.

Therefore, I empathize with you. Sometimes grading's not even objective when it seems to be! Therefore I prefer ETS to people I've actually met.

For example, take another time at a different university: my friendly criticism of the prof's lecture during office hours - citing my research and other relevant published authorities he simply didn't know of - met with surprise. How was I to know "surprise" meant rejection?

When my second paper's extensive research and criticism of the most fashionable revisionist work in the field - merely a book review - faced criticism from him for being incomplete instead its substance (it was a brief five-week summer term), then I knew I was in trouble!

This prof was quite senior (PhD and JD) but a lousy lecturer. Student course evaluations however were not completed until after the final undergraduate exams were finished - in other word, when only the most toadying of his students remained to fill them out. THEN I realized that he wasn't interested in honest pr effective criticism - just agreement.

Therefore I abandoned all hope straightaway. If a prof is going to jigger the outcome, why bother contesting anything?

So my solution is to avoid all personal contact or else become your teacher's course buddy. The latter guarantees nothing except that any refusal to hear you out will be all the harder for them.

My experience has left me quite cynical towards higher education. Only one prof I've ever had was quite open about the subjective disutility of mandatory evaluations. He mentored Kermit Hall - the prof who gives the Barnes & Noble "Portable Professor" lectures in his field. His humility deeply touched me - all the more so since his premature demise. If you find one, do more than respect that teacher - revere him or her because they're truly honest.

 

Yep.
It would just seem that if one were to focus more on the content of the course than the GPA, then more learning would take place.
Instead of complaining about the profs who won't give an A (which implies a concern about the GPA more than the content of the course), talk to the prof. Say something along the lines of 'I can't believe I didn't understand the content better than I did. It seems like I must be missing something for I feel I should have been able to do better on the exams. Of course, the first response will be along the lines of 'well, a 99 is a very respectable grade'. But if you as the student persist more along the lines of what you failed to comprehend on the subject matter (vice the scoring), the prof would more likely help you understand where your weakness it located. And on the next exam if you make the same mistake, then the prof would realize, that hey,....