Imperial Mba

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by wh431, Dec 3, 2005.

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  1. wh431

    wh431 New Member

    Dear Fellows,

    I am glad to see that atleast someone has got "eyes" to read and understand that there was no bad intention in my post. All i meant to do was to share/discuss information, which i guess this Forum is all about. I still dont understand the reason of angry reaction from fellows Deselms and UncleJhanko.

    I just didnt see any point in wasting my time answering and prolonging the useless discussion.

    Just a thought, if shortening words is seen as "insult and immaturaity" by the moderator(Deselms). Please explain and describe that in some sort of rules and Posting guídelines, so that ppl here can be aware of senstitvity of these issues on this Forum and the reason why is it so.

    May be ppl in ceratin parts of worlds can sensitive about such minor things like shortening words and it can be that it is taken as insult by fellow americans. However personally i dont agree that on a global discussion Forum like DegreeInfo such things can not be tolerated.

    WH
     
  2. decimon

    decimon Well-Known Member

    In the metric system, a measure of the result of prolonged computer use.
     
  3. Dave C.

    Dave C. New Member

    Angela,

    Interesting!

    One question, could you (or perhaps tcmak) confirm who awards the Imperial MBA and what the actual diploma states is the awarding institution?

    I have it in the back of my mind that it is not Imperial itself.

    Thanks!

    Dave C.
     
  4. JLV

    JLV Active Member

    Just trying to be a bit creative. By assymetric, I meant a relationship that is not proportional, one that is not between equals. The opposite to symmetric, if you follow..... :) If it doesn´t make any sense and bothers the most orthodox members of the board, please, accept my humble apologies..... :D
     
  5. agilham

    agilham New Member

    It's the usual UoL diploma with Imperial as the lead college, but with the "studied externally" notation, I believe.

    Angela
     
  6. JLV

    JLV Active Member

    It would be great to know what happens now to current external students, if their degree will be conferred by the U of L or by Imperial College now that their relationship has broken up. Up to now, it was the U of L which awarded all degrees.
     
  7. JLV

    JLV Active Member

    Hehehe, I get it now.... Very witty. A little bit dense today, or more than usual, I should say. :D OK, I meant asymmetric. (ok now?)
     
  8. BillDayson

    BillDayson New Member

    Comment in the what? (I asume that it's a university publication.)

    It seems to me that spinning off all of the University of London colleges into totally separate universities is a bad idea. They are so close to one another, just a few miles apart, that there must be synergies in their cooperation. Shared library and laboratory resources, shared administrative functions, the ability for students at one to do work at another. If they spin off entirely, there's going to be an awful lot of unnecessary duplication, or else each separate school will leave diminished.

    A model that the University of London might want to emulate is the University of California. Each of the ten UCs generally behaves as, and is treated by the public as, a separate university. But technically they all still remain parts of one single statewide university. So what London might be best advised to do is keep the University of London umbrella, but make it into a much looser federation, giving individual colleges and units more autonomy within it.

    If the University of London spins completely apart, what will become of all those many University of London institutes, some of them very prestigious? What will become of the Courtauld Institute (arguably the best art history school in the English speaking world)? The Institute of Classical Studies? The Institute of Germanic Studies? The Institute of Historical Research? The Warburg Institute? The coutless medical schools? What will happen to the External Programme???

    I suppose that a sadly diminished University of London will still remain, composed of the all left-over bits and pieces. But it needn't end that way if it emulated the University of California.
     
  9. agilham

    agilham New Member

    In the short term, absolutely nothing will happen. Imperial degrees will continue to be conferred by the federal university for at least the next academic year. For Imperial to go it alone there needs to be an amendment to the University of London Act and a separate act for Imperial. Given where we are in the legislative cycle in the UK, it would seem unlikely that such legislation would be ready in time to go through in the spring session of Parliament, so we're realistically looking at autumn 2006 for the passage of the enabling legislation. If I had to guess, I'd say that students taking their final examinations in July 2007 would be the first to receive degrees from Imperial rather than the UoL.

    In the interim, the federal university can make counter-offers to Imperial which might make Imperial more comfortable staying within the federal structure. It currently seems unlikely that Sir Richard Sykes will accept such counter-offers as expelling Goldsmith's and Birkbeck (which is how I interpret his comments about the reputation of the federal university) are not likely to be on the table.

    At the same time as all of the above, Imperial will have to come to a decision about the fate of the DL programmes that it currently runs in conjunction with the external programme. There are a number of options: 1, can the DL programmes in their entirety; 2, bring them in-house as purely Imperial programmes; 3, come to some form of agreement with the federal university about the external programme continuing the administration (with the degrees being awarded either by Imperial or UoL); 4, hand over the programmes to other colleges remaining within the federal university; 5, can or transfer some of the programmes and keep the others. Of these, 4 is probably the least likely as none of the other colleges have Wye's experience in the programmes run by the Wye campus. 1 and 2 depend on whether the costs of running the programme in-house seen as prohibitive and also on a strategic decision about the way the new Imperial will be run.

    However, given that Imperial now have their own VLE and have a dedicated distance learning unit at the Wye campus, it's probably a decent bet that the programmes run from the Wye campus will be safe in one form or another. In fact, I'd put money on them being taken in-house. The MSc in Drugs and Alcohol Policy and Prevention has already been withdrawn, leaving the MBA as the only non-Wye DL programme. I have to admit I think that the MBA might just be vulnerable, as it doesn't follow the same structure as the F/T and executive MBAs and might therefore be seen as extraneous to the new Imperial brand.

    All things considered, I think it will be April/May next year at the earliest before we hear anything definitive about what will happen to Imperial's DL programmes.

    Angela
     
  10. agilham

    agilham New Member

    Er, sorry, The Guardian newspaper. It's the only one of the quality dailies with really excellent education coverage.

    Up to 1994 there were many, many more shared functions, but the colleges have now functioned as separate academic units for over a decade, and they've very rarely shared things like library and laboratory space. As a Birkbeck student, I have borrowing rights at Senate House (and this is the first year that this right has been extended to Birkbeck students without us having to pay a very hefty subscription fee) but I have no rights next door at UCL and I have to join either the Hellenic Society or the Roman Society to get borrowing rights at the Institute of Classics.

    They've done that, but it's still not enough for Imperial. In practical terms, Imperial probably has more autonomy than one of the UCs. There's nothing like the requirement that one should accept lower level courses from other UCs or the California community college system for transfer students.

    They'll either become separate institutions (which to a very great extent they already are) or become subsumed within one of the bigger colleges. The postgraduate medical faculties like LSHTM or the ICR are more than capable of holding their own as independent entities.

    Angela
     
  11. BillDayson

    BillDayson New Member

    Amazing. It's as if the chancellor of UC Berkeley threatened to unilaterally take Berkeley out of the University of California unless UC expels UC Riverside.

    How did Sykes get so much power that he can dictate terms to his employer? He must be acting for the government, or at least for what he believes is an effective majority of MPs.

    It seems to me that the federal university needs to start an aggressive parliamentary lobbying effort on its own behalf.

    I can't help thinking that this is just dumb. Here in California, I can't imagine that an independent Imperial would be any better regarded than it already is. If anything, the opposite's more likely. As a part of the University of London, it benefits not only from its own reputation, but also from association with numerous other highly regarded institutions.

    But basically, anyone around here that's likely to form an opinion about Imperial already has. It's already respected on its own abundant merits. I don't see how Goldsmith detracts from them. I mean, would UC Berkeley be better regarded in London if Riverside were thrown out of the University of California? Would Berkeley be better regarded in Europe if it dropped the 'UC' initials? It's ridiculous.
     
  12. agilham

    agilham New Member

    As I said, that's merely my interpretation of what Sir Richard is reported to have said. But I suspect that it's a moderately accurate interpretation, all the same.

    Sir Richard is both an employee of and the effective CEO of Imperial. His first (and last and probably inbetween as well) loyalty is always and must be to Imperial. The same is true of all of the heads of house, but some of them are rather better disposed to the federal university.

    The federal university actually now has very little power over what the constitutent colleges do and how they develop. The University of London Act of 1994 gave grant and research funding directly to the colleges and from then onwards, the degree of intercollegiality in the federal university has massively decreased.

    As for the MPs, the legislation will be unopposed. The days when acts founding universities were a matter of dispute belong to the era when the federal university was founded. In fact, I suspect that there may only be a statutory instrument needed to amend the UoL act.

    It won't do anything. As I said, the legislation will be unopposed. If a unit of the federal university decides, after appropriate consultation within the college, that it is better served by going it alone nobody will stand in its way.

    Ah, but it's the association with the other institutions that is the heart of the problem. I seem to recall that not too long ago we were discussing university reputation here on degreeinfo and Imperial was not getting the name recognition that those of us from the UK would have expected. I suspect that Sir Richard wants to end the confusion and start positioning Imperial firmly as the best scientific university in Europe without any of the federal university getting in the way.

    Angela
     
  13. tcmak

    tcmak New Member

    I have been following the news recently. Things are still in early stages, any GUESS would seem to be too early, particularly about the future of the related distance learning programmes.

    Defederation is not a new idea at all and Imperial is not the first one to come up with this idea. Notably London Business School, which is part of the UoL, already grants degree on their own.

    I cannot deny any of the possibilies that some members mentioned. However, the DL MBA would become vulnerable is not likely.

    Firstly, the process takes a long time. It would be until, at least, 2012 to have the first batch of students graduating with the college degree. Whether Imperial quitting UoL would imply UoL being dissolved is still a big question. Some colleges might choose to stay in the University. I don't know.

    At the same time, Imperial is restructuring the Faculty of Life Sciences. Some of their DL programmes would remain granting UoL degrees. There is no reason to support removing the DL MBA programme due to defederation. Or I would say there would be a major change with the DL MBA in near future.

    The reason behind quitting is not just about name recognition. Imperial would indeed suffer from defederation on name recogition in terms of medicine. In the medical community, the name of UoL are much better recognised by any of the colleges. However, The Rector believes that paying 800K annual fee to the University has little in return.

    Have to wait and see for further information on this.
     
  14. tcmak

    tcmak New Member

  15. tcmak

    tcmak New Member

    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 15, 2005
  16. joi

    joi New Member

    tcmak:

    Have you asked the External Programme haow this may affect the MBA?

    Joi
     
  17. tcmak

    tcmak New Member

    Yes, this is something that a lot of classmates are asking.

    However, there is no official answer here. The only thing they said are only their understanding of the issue.

    For now, what we can pretty sure that any change will not affect current students, and what both UoL and IC will honour what they have commited to the students.

    BTW...though anything official and remains a *guess*, our programme director believes that such change would mean the MBA will be awarded by IC without UoL.... (I have to emphasize here that this is only a guess, anybody would have the possibility to get wrong with a guess)

    The work on withdrawal is still very early. It takes pretty much a long time before it can get down to what to do with the DL programmes.

    For the MBA programme, it is mostly run by IC. I don't see much problem for IC to go on with their own for the DL programmes. However, I would be interested to see how the LLB or LLM programmes would go if UoL has to be dissolved. This is would be bad news to many people, esp those in common law countries. UoL has been providing a flexible way for people who want to be lawyers but not able to get to the local law schools.
     
  18. fawcettbj

    fawcettbj New Member

    Angela - nice commentary. I think you are right on the button - however I'm sure Sykes is on record as saying he wants to create the most reknowned university in Europe for technical/scientific research (although I can't find the quote).

    For those interested the following is UoL's view and this is Imperial's and this is how one of the other collegesBirkbeck portrayed it.

    I'm sure I've also seen links for reactions (post 9 Dec) from UCL, Kings and a couple of others but don't have them to hand however this piece in the Guardian basically sums the whole issue up.

    In terms of what does it mean for the External System - the simple answer is we don't know - it's too early to say, but again Angela's probably got it covered in her five options.
     
  19. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator

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