Naval War College Graduates First Command Master Chiefs

Re: Same

Clay,

See my post to Musatang.

Since this is really a tempest in a teapot, you e-mail me at [email protected]. Nothing I say is going to change your opinion - since this is an emotional issue for you - and there's no point in boring others.

 

I doubt that it is an emotional issue to those who post here. Most of the posts did nothing more than advocate a position that it is not a waste of money to educate Sr. NCOs which in my opnion benefits all involved. To continously state it is an emotional issue implies our judgement is clouded where yours is not, and that educated people cannot remove themselves from the emotional aspect of a simple discussion, and does a disservice to those involved in this discussion, and is just an excuse not to defend your position.

Laslty, regardless of your feelings towards NCOs and education it is your opinion, nothing more, and as such I respect your point of view, but in reality it does not impact me or any other enlisted soldier who decides to pursue an education--my tuition assistance and GI Bill are paid regardless and the only one who has to sign my paperwork is me.

William

 

Same

DITTO!

 

Mr. Morgan, I will decline your invitation to email you privately, and I await your reply post to this board to point out my factual errors, which would be quite distinct from any opinions I hold. But since your own posts here state that you are a retired field grade officer, an ex-military personnel officer and a CIS instructor at Roosevelt, surely you have no problem in confirming these facts, since you cite some of these facts as reasons why your opinion is an informed one. Unless of course you are too emotionally involved in the issue.

Best wishes in your future endeavors.

PS: And Clay, in the interests of accuracy, I am not now, nor have I ever been in the military, although my wife was a lifer in the Navy and I have had much personal and professional contact with many military personnel over the years. This may well mean that my opinions on matters military may be taken with a five pound bag of salt. I am, however, an expert when it comes to medical malpractice (my profession) and recreational shooting, cooking, coffee and homebrewing (my hobbies). My opinions on these matters is likely an informed one.

 

Same

Michael,
If your wife was a lifer, so were you. Your comments carry as much weight as any of ours. I declined Morgan's offer also and agree with your response. Something smells fishy, and it's not the bay on which I live. It really stinks.

I do a lot of shooting, love Cuban coffee, and want you to sue an old girlfriend (physician) for mental anguish. I tend to get banged-up regularly. Mostly due to stupidity and occasionally due to, stupidity with assistance.

If I'm not injured, I feel as if I've lost a friend. She has attempted to heal every injury I have ever had, and some I'm awaiting. My last "crash n burn" resulted in her dressing me like a mummy. Sucked the macho right out of me. I had old ladies helping me cross streets, and if I stopped, dogs used me as a fireplug.

Is over-treatment a valid cause of action, or whatever you call it?

Thanks,
Clay

P.S. Morgan pushed a pencil, played spook, or read a book. I've done the same, but I was in the Army. Perhaps, he was in the Salvation Army?

 

Clay, Michael,

It is interesting that he makes the statement that everyone is wrong and he is right, but provides nothing to support his position. Furthermore, since he was in the Army, how could he know how the Navy intends to utilize these Master Chiefs that go to the Naval War College? Moreover, he points out that the Naval War College is for senior officers. This is totally inaccurate. The majority of personnel that attend the Naval War College are junior officers finishing a first or second tour and usually coming off sea duty. A significant number of them will go the Naval War College for two years instead of traditional shore duty.

Now as far as the Master Chiefs that were selected. They will have to serve at least three months of active duty for every month they attend the War College so they Navy will get some return on investment. Furthermore, the return on investment is probably safe for these Master Chiefs since they are not subject to twice failure of selectection which the junior officers that attend are. As a matter of fact, about 20-30 percent of the officers that attend the Naval War College will never reach LCDR (0-4) because they will fail to select and be involuntarily released from active duty or forced to retire if they have enough time which is unlikey unless they had substantial enlisted time.
Finally, the detailers, assignment officials, in the Navy will probably insure that these Master Chiefs that complete the Naval War College are selectively assigned. Again, this is not the case with junior officers and even some of the senior officers that attend.

I would make a statement that this is a waste of money unless I knew all the facts. I have been around the Navy since graduating from high school in 1969 either on active duty, consulting with Booz, Allen and Hamilton or as a navy civilian since 2002. So, I think I have some experience, education and expertise in Navy human resources policies and procedures since I was a Chief Personnelman prior to getting a commission in the Limited Duty Officer field of Administration (Navy HR).

Jim makes statements without knowing any detail of the subject matter. Furthermore, he keeps saying that we are too emotionally connected despite the fact that most everyone has given him significant detail on why they think it is not a bad idea to send some selected Master Chiefs to the Naval War College.

I could give Jim or anyone else that wants to know more detail but as he keeps saying he does not want to bore anybody. The bottom line is that he made a statement without knowing any facts about it then cannot back it up.

Fred

Fred

 

Willaim,

Feel free to e-mail me - your fellow current or ex-NCO's appear to lack the confidence to do so.

The issue is NOT "advocate a position that it is not a waste of money to educate Sr. NCOs" but whether sending ANYONE (in this case NCO's) full time and py to a school that prepares senior officers for senior command (which they will never have) is a waste of taxpayer money.

Again, this is clearly an emotional "bag" - notwithstanding your effort to misstate the issue - much like the debate of "drivers licenses vs. legal residence".

Have a happy thanksgiving.

 

Same

Yup! You nailed it. And if he had attained 0-3 to 0-4 he would have known, even if he had been in the Army. How do you like BAH? Ever work Sverdrup while with?

Any fool knows that if the service "gives" you anything, it costs ++.

Old Fool,
Clay

 

Clay,

I don't work for BAH now. I worked for them for about two years on site with the Navy on two programs than took as job with the Department of the Navy as a civilian GS.

I liked the work but I was assigned on site with the Navy and a significant number of the Navy GS civilians did want us on site or did not want to work as a team. In opinion, I think that some GS workers dislike contractors or consultants because they fear that they will lose their jobs to them.

Fred

 

Jim,

Your post is not directed to me but since you called us out by stating that we are wrong about the subject than I will respond. You seem to be hung up on the fact that the Navy is sending Master Chiefs on taxpayers money to the Naval War College in a course where senior officers are going to prepares them for senior command positions. That is not why the Navy is sending the Master Chiefs. I recommend reading the link that Charles posted when he started this thread. They are sending them to hone their analytical abilities so that they can support senior officers in traditional Navy or joint command arenas which is becoming more common now because of the downsizing of the military among other things. Second, as I pointed out previously, most of the officers sent to the Naval War College from the Navy are junior officers in not senior officers.

Again, I don't know how you feel that you are more qualified than me and the rest of the people that have posted here who have provided a great amount of detail yet you have provided nothing to support your position except to state that we are too emotionally attached to provide an informed opinion.

I would never attempt to question the Secretary of the Army on a decision unless I knew all the facts about the subject matter which would be hard for me to know without a great amount of time and effort. You made the statement that it is a waste of taxpayers money without providing anythign to support your position.

Most of us have supported our position. Don't tell me this is all you have.


All the best,

Fred

 

Same

My first note was to Fred.


Jim,
I'll mail you. All the posters have confidence in themselves and have made statements of fact. Thus far, yours have been based on conjecture. Do I need a decoder ring to ring?

I talked to a retired 0-9 about this and he thought it was progressive thinking (out of the box). So, unless you are Carl, Wayne, Hank, or Pete, I doubt you can sway my overly-emotional mind.

Hope you had ham for Thanksgiving. It's like me giving my turkey CPR. Without a head, I was blowing air out his ass.

Mud

 

Thank you for your kind words, Clay. When I was (much) younger and worked for the county hazmat team, I had the privilege of being sent to Fort Rucker in Alabama to take a number of courses at the Chemical School alongside the active duty troops. At that time, and I think even still today, the Chemical School had a certain number of training slots for civilian and Federal personnel working in the emergency response field. It was very interesting, and I still have the Chemical Corps insignia they gave me upon graduation. I subsequently did some freelance consulting and training work with some local elements of the Corps as part of a local mass disaster response team. I think I still have that old atropine autoinjector somewhere....

 

Same

Michael,
Thanks for the thanks. I have no idea of the shelf life of atropine sulfate. Have to dig through some references. If it's in the old injector, water won't leech out, so it may still be good. Now, I'll have to find out.

I'm gonna mail Jim and see what his shyness is about. Could be an E-8 or 9 tore him a new one when he was company grade? I'll advise, if not sworn to secrecy.

Mud

 

Same

Mustang and Michael,
Nada responso. El es incognito. Vaya se figure.

Fango

 

Clay, Michael,

It is very interesting that he states that we are wrong but provides nothing to support his position. But it is hard to support your position when you don't know what you are talking about in the first place. How could he have a clue about what the Navy intends to do with the Master Chiefs that attended the Naval War College unless he was actively involved in detailing them to assignments?

Fred

 

Same

What's even funnier is there is no one answering the phone. I was gonna read, ponder, and light him up. Probably get booted because I'd respond on DI. Maybe he's ringin' a bell today and helping someone out, or seeing if he could bait us?

His logic is flawed. 0 knowledge + 0 knowledge = 0 knowledge. Maybe my math is off? No need to embarrass him. We won. NBD.

I have a couple retired 0-6 friends that voted for Kerry. This was after telling them I knew one of his PBR Commanders and they could talk to him by phone. Decided idiocy was non-discriminatory. They are still friends, we just don't talk politics.

I reckon it's pretty good everyone has their own opinion or we'd be bored to death. And I'd still be stuck with one of my X's. At least the program was successful. Let's hope the other services follow.

Want some turkey?

Clay

 

constructive waste, or, higher education

OK. My turn.

What a bunch of old women!
You're worse than clergy arguing about orders and vestments!
Or Lotorians arguing whether a Grand Raccoon outranks an Exalted Procyon.

This eternal civilian (damn proud of it, son: the name's taxpayer, pard, taxpayer, pay my share and take no loopholes) is simply amazed at the cattiness of this thread. Highly amused, too, and not just by Clay cracking me up by his refusal to take himself seriously--always a good sign, ladies, always a good sign.

It seems to me that a better-educated military is a better military.

The military has never minded wasting taxpayers' money on other stuff; if sending NCO's to the NWC is a waste--which I'm unsure is the case a-tall--it's a constructive waste.

Janko Preotul*

*Who is just appalled at Lutherans using blue paraments in Advent.

 

Re: Same

Clay - per my response to your e-mail Sunday (which you seem to have trouble "reporting") - I tend to agree with Janko.

 

Same

Jim,
Uncle is a stabilizing force on this forum, very astute and a gentleman. We decided to leave you alone because he pointed out the obvious. I mailed you and received no response. This I reported, if you read bad Spanish, in an earlier post. So don't be evasive and attempt to blame a failure to communicate on me. If you want to pick a fight, I'm your man. It's my adrenaline fix. And I'm an addict.

I received nothing from you. So I'll give you the benefit and let you try again.

I'm an easy going dude, don't start fights, unless protecting someone. Maybe you're the same. Rather than neutralize an unknown, I back-off my trigger. My buddy may be playing bad guy. Try the forum mail. Unless you're as computer illiterate as the guy pecking on this thing?

 

Re: Same

Really? See below my e-mail to you yesterday.

Clay - per my e-mail, there is no "value added" in our communicating - for one thing - I simply can't believe anything you say.

----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Morgan <[email protected]>
To: C Bar <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2005 12:34 PM
Subject: Re: NWC

Clay,

I don't mind communicating - frankly - I was/am becoming embarrassed by some of the behavior/posts.

There are worthwhile uses of my time (and of yours I'm sure) and I see no
point in rolling in the mud with a pig.

JM

----- Original Message -----
From: "C Bar" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2005 12:25 PM
Subject: NWC


> Hey Jim,
> If you don't want to discuss this topic on DI we can talk. Also, if you
> want me to remain quiet about our commo I will.
> Clay
>