PhD glut. Is the DBA any better then?

Hmm, not that Wikipedia is perhaps the most authoritative source, but the U of Washington certainly was not following this philosophy back in 1990. I do recall at that time, however, a cross-town rival, Seattle University, had a special evening MBA program designed specifically for Boeing engineers and scientists, and they welcomed people without prior business training but who had scientific degrees. That program still exists, and my sister who works at Boeing, is enrolled in that program right now, with an undergrad degree in computers.

Now, of course, I think the U of Washington requires a undergrad degree in any discipline, as do most MBA schools these days. The UW now says that an academic or employment background in business is not required. I think that relatively few business schools still require an undergrad business or economics degree, although I have heard of some.

 

How will the DETC DBA programs affect this?

 

Well, more online schools providing DBA opportunities then more "glut" of DBAs in the market. The PhD and DBA is overated, the value of getting in one is basically a matter of timing. Nowadays DBAs in accounting are in high demand but it might not last for long.

 

I think it will depend on the demand for DETC DBA's. It also think demand will be correlated to cost of the program. So time will tell.

 

Not, IMHO.

DETC DBA's won't have much usage in academia, but I suspect they'll be very useful in industry. And if there is a glut, it is in academia, not industry.

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: PhD glut. Is the DBA any better then?

Yes, that´s what I was told too. In the 50´s 60´s there was an economic boom in the States that demanded a lot more people having business skills. So they decided to prepare a course to give an introduction to business to people with different backgrounds.

 

What happens to DBAs from UNISA or the Australian Universities that are accredited by DETC? Will they be useless for Academia too?

 

Since DETC DBA's aren't even born yet we might have to take a seat until some actual numbers start turning up. Some RA schools have obviously accepted DETC grads for graduate programs. I am expecting the DBA to have similar acceptance to the DETC MBA, really. Adjuncts for the most part in academia. But that seems to be what the PhD's are getting, too.

I'm wondering how it will all turn out. If a DETC doctorate gets close to the same mileage as an RA doctorate then I figure a lot more money was spent on my RA doctorate. Since I am in a PhD program it makes little difference. The DETCs don't offer that...yet.

How well has RA academia received the Physical Therapy doctorates from St Augustine(DETC)? Wonder if anyone has any info on that? CUNY already employs an associate professor with only a PT from St. Augustine. Walsh University employs a St Augustine DPT as an associate professor. (We know. The old allied health routine.)

 

Bing,

I agree. An PhD from a low tier school is normally used to teach as an adjunct. Unless you have your PhD with the right specialization at the right time, your PhD from a low tier school has limited usability where there is a "glut" of PhDs from better schools waiting in line even for adjunct positions.

DBAs from DETC schools would probably be good for adjunct positions and a lot cheaper than a PhD from Capella or Touro. At the end, they both might have the same usability in the market.

As for industry, I would think that a PhD from an online school or a DETC DBA wouldn't be so different to eyes of the employer. So in this case it would work too. Same for consulting where the customer is unlikely do ask you about the origin of your degree.

 

Some of the Australian universities like Charles Sturt University have a DBA which is offshore and one never seems to be able to complete it. One constantly is disenrolled from the program and the corrections on the corrections of a dissertation done by umpteen supervisors eventually gets you nowhere but all the more poorer for it.

 

Mixing apples and oranges

A DETC DBA is not sufficient enough to qualify one to teach at a regionally accredited college. In fact, it is insufficient. In this regard, a DETC DBA cannot be compared to a PhD from Capella or Touro because the latter two meet the minimum qualifications that are acceptable to RA institutions.

 

Re: Mixing apples and oranges

I'm talking about adjunct positions where a RA Master is required and a DBA is more of dressing.

 

Re: Re: Mixing apples and oranges

Indeed, it would only be window dressing. An adjunct professor who got his position based solely on his RA masters could list a myriad of additional things on his resume, but listing a DETC school would not, IMO, be to his advantage in the world of academia.

 

Oh by the way Charles Sturt University has now gone to recruit more DBA candidates from South East Asia who unknowingly enrols without knowing whether they would complete the program. My fellow countrymen have wisen up to the fact that one goes on a ride to nowhere.

 

Re: Mixing apples and oranges

The answer to that is maybe, yes & no. There are more RA institutions that are willing to accept DETC because it is a recognized accrediting agency for admission into programs. Now would a DETC DBA gain you faculty status as an Assistant Prof (etc).....probably not but that may be less due to the DETC nature of the DBA than the value of where it came from as an institution. I am not saying that there is not an RA prejudice regardless of whether there is really more rigour in a U of Pheonix BA degree versus a DETC BA degree. For example, you could probably get a NCU PhD, or a Capella PhD, and find similar difficulties (there are exceptions). Why...because there is a glut of doctorates in academia and faculty positions at big & small universities are competitive. If I go for a doctoral position with a Capella PhD against a guy with a Walla Sis Boom Ba state universityPhD, and there are no major problems with him....Walla Sis Boo U is likely to get the job.

I have seen Walden grads in faculty positions at places like Liberty but I suspect they were already employed and getting their PhD along the way. Same could probably be said for Capella, etc.

On line doctrates have their place but whether it is a DETC doctorate (when that becomes available) or a Uof P doctorate, or Capella. They open some doors, they allow those in teaching positions at Community Colleges or Universities with Masters degree and a track record to gain status and promotion as a "Dr.", may allow people to practice Psychology (with limitations due to APA), etc. Lets face facts though, a dl PhD from a DL school is not going to be seen on par in academia with a South Dakota State University degree. Some day maybe but not now. On paper things may look equal (ie we consider all RA..blah..blah) but I can tell you that for example with U of P, I do not know how many negative comments I have heard from people & this speaks to the prejudice out there and a general perception of quality issues.

My TRACS doctorate has opened doors for me. I am thankful for it. It is accredited, I worked hard for it, did a good dissertation, etc. The school had both a residential program and non residential. But, if I think I am going to teach Pastoral Counseling at Dallas Theological Seminary.....I need therapy. They have their pick from Fuller grads, secular schools, and even Liberty U now.

As always there are exceptions. Stephen Olford was so well respected that he has a chair named after him at Beeson. Olford (who passed away) was a very influential Welsh preacher with a doctorate from LRS (maybe even before TRACS accreditation).


North

 

Re: Re: Mixing apples and oranges

I agree with you. A DETC DBA is still a more cost effective option for a person looking for an industry job or a community college teacher looking for promotion provided that the community college recognizes DETC credits for pay increase.

Yes, a Capella PhD in paper can open more doors but with more traditional schools offering distance learning opportunities, I think that the academic market would still prefer DL degrees coming from traditional institutions.

 

I decided on a doctorate for a couple reasons:

First, here in Silicon Valley, you cannot swing a dead weasel on an empty street corner (people were upset I mentioned dead cats in previous messages) without hitting other weasels with MBAs. MBAs in this area are a dime a dozen, and you can get change back on that transaction. So, I wanted a differentiator.

Second, I'm not a deep-thought academic. I enjoy research and I enjoy teaching, but I do not see myself on a tenure track. So, a PhD was not in the cards, but a DBA was.

Third, I did not really look at the marginal revenue/cost equation, but the marginal utility equation, and when I did that, it was something I decided to do.

All that said, I found the DBA did pay some small, yet interesting dividends. First, I was able to challenge the CFP (r) exam without taking the classes. Second, UoPhx pays a small extra for doctorally trained faculty (I started up there again).

What I did not find was job hunting to be any easier. In fact, seeing academic type letters or titles scare the heck outta recruiters. I think they think we'll play Jedi mind tricks on them.

If you want to do it, do it. If you are looking for a monetary pay-off, I doubt you will find it.